tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post7033969312547865576..comments2024-03-24T23:41:23.944-07:00Comments on Talk Wisdom: Sexchanging the Truth For a LieChristinewjchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-42851317904299168812008-08-11T17:34:00.000-07:002008-08-11T17:34:00.000-07:00A few points - specifically on submission.1.) Paul...A few points - specifically on submission.<BR/><BR/>1.) Paul says in Ephesians 5:21 that we should all <I>"Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ"</I>. He tells us <B>all</B> that submission is something we should practice - and this is immediately prior to him reiterating the point by mentioning that wives should submit to their husbands in verse 22.<BR/><BR/>2.) In Colossians 3 (which parallels Ephesians and was likely written at the same time during Paul's imprisonment), Paul uses the word "obey" in reference to children and servants - not wives. "Obedience" and "submission" have two different meanings and we shouldn't treat them interchangeably! Often you hear those railing against "submission" making this mistake and not understanding what Paul was saying.<BR/><BR/>3.) It is unlikely that Paul telling wives to "submit" to their husbands was controversial in the first century the way it is today. I think if Paul were writing this letter in English in the 21st century, it's <I>possible</I> that he <I>might</I> use a different word - not because "submit" is a bad translation or inaccurate, but because the connotation of the word submission invokes a response that seems to overshadow Paul's real intent in saying this. Which is...<BR/><BR/>4.) ...Paul was saying something profound about meeting others needs first. He was saying something about how we were designed by our creator, and what our <B>deepest needs</B> really are. A man's greatest need is to be respected. A woman's greatest need is to be loved. A parent's greatest need from their children is to be obeyed. A woman who isn't loved by her husband finds it very difficult to show him respect. A man who is not respected finds it difficult to show his wife love. <A HREF="http://www.loveandrespect.com/" REL="nofollow">Emmerson Eggrichs</A> calls this <A HREF="http://www.family.org/marriage/A000001383.cfm" REL="nofollow">the crazy cycle.</A> The "Love and Respect" study is one of the best there is... I highly recommend checking it out to any and all - Christian and non-Christian alike.<BR/><BR/>5.) When you understand - and I mean truly understand - these needs and our ability to meet them in our most important relationships within our families, then we will begin to really understand our relationship within the body of Christ and with our creator. The whole of human design and marriage specifically mimics in a profoundly beautiful way the image of Christ and His church. Without living out these commandments, our relationship with Christ suffers (aka: our prayers are hindered).<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing your insights Christine. Always a pleasure to read!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-69243927227369137092008-08-07T09:17:00.000-07:002008-08-07T09:17:00.000-07:00GM,Made the grammar correction. The point still s...GM,<BR/><BR/>Made the grammar correction. The point still stands.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The Bible doesn't approve of everything that it records. It is an honest book that often details the sins and errors of man.<BR/><BR/>If you will recall, Solomon realized this near the end of his life. (See Ecclesiastes) He even labeled all that he had (possessions, money, women) as "vanity" and "chasing after the wind."<BR/><BR/>Instances of polygamy are recorded in Scripture, but there is often condemnation towards such practice. If you want a more detailed response, go back to the message board discussion that I had with "Prakk" a few years back.<BR/><BR/>When Abram slept with the concubine Hagar (See Genesis 16(because both he and Sarai were impatient regarding God's promise for them to have a son in their old age), we can see how one instance of adultery led to thousands of years of turmoil between Ishmael's and Isaac's decendents).<BR/><BR/>It is important to note that Abram was in his 90's when the LORD (pre-incarnate Christ) appeared to him (see Gen. 17) and changed his name to Abraham - for he would be "a father of many nations."<BR/><BR/>Notice that Ishmael - in whom the descendents of the Arabs came from (and where centuries later, the Muslim religion was created by Muhammed) was born "in sin" prior to this declaration for Abraham.<BR/><BR/>It's not about having any kind of an "obsession with sex" GM. It is concern about God's Design for the family. Unfortunately, many of the problems that hurt families are related to deviant, sexual issues. Of course, there are other issues that split up couples - money, "irreconcilable differences," etc. However, society's push towards "anything goes" sexual practices does end up hurting marriages and families. Do you deny that fact?<BR/><BR/>GM, sometimes I wonder whether or not you comprehend what is written in my posts. <BR/><BR/>Sex was invented by God for the union of one man and one woman. Of course, sinful human beings have made a mess of that.<BR/><BR/>As far as the Godhead is concerned, there is, was, and will ever be NO REASON for any kind of physical, sexual union. God the Father is Spirit. God the Son co-existed eternally with the Father and made pre-incarnate Old Testament appearances in Scripture as "The Angel of the LORD." One example is when he wrestled with Jacob in Gen. 32:24,25.<BR/><BR/>When Christ was born into this world, there was no need for a "sexual union" either. Mary was a virgin and that which was conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost (Spirit). See Matthew 1:18-25.<BR/><BR/>Sexual relations were given by God to man through the covenant of marriage for the purpose of "the two shall become one" in both the physical sense and spiritual sense; as well as for the purpose of creating families.<BR/><BR/>Not quite sure why you felt the need to bring up "genital mutilation" and circumcision.<BR/><BR/>Female genital mutilation is a practice of the Muslims, not Christians.<BR/><BR/>Circumcision of males was an outward sign of the covenant between the Israelites and God. As it turns out, it was also a physically healthy thing for men to have done to prevent contracting disease.<BR/><BR/>There is no need for a "Mrs. God." God HAS already led by example through the eternal relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The union of Jesus Christ and his own (all born again believers - a.k.a the church) is referred to as the "Bride" in Scripture. It doesn't have anything to do with a physical type of union - it is spiritual.<BR/><BR/>GM, there is no sex in heaven. There is <B>no need for it!</B> At the culmination of history, there is SOMETHING BETTER - for the saved - that is! <BR/><BR/>I know...this fact might cement your atheism but so be it...Christinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-78047026286822567772008-08-07T08:09:00.000-07:002008-08-07T08:09:00.000-07:00(GMpilot raises hand)Teacher! Teacher, I've a few ...(GMpilot raises hand)<BR/><BR/>Teacher! Teacher, I've a few questions.<BR/>How is polygamy "sexchanging the truth for a lie", as you put it? <BR/><BR/>I mean, so many biblical heroes practiced polygamy, and Muslims (and some Mormons) still do. Solomon, according to a certain widely-circulated book, had three hundred wives. Of course, he was a king, so he could afford them, but even a Muslim man is told not to have more than one wife if he can't support her.<BR/><BR/>Why isn't God married? Believers are always claiming that God knows everything about everything (maybe <I>that's</I> why he's still single), but how can you trust advice on marriage from someone who's never been married? Believe that, and you end up with some old man in a dress who has never been married telling millions of followers what to to when <I><B>they</B></I> marry. Hasn't God ever heard of "leading by example"?<BR/>Where is <I><B>Mrs.</B></I> God? Even the pagans had supreme gods who were married! <BR/><BR/>What is this evangelical Christian obsession with sex? It's the one form of fun where you don't have to wear special clothes, it can be done with little preparation, no special training is required, and is a truly cooperative activity. We are told by believers that it has one function only, and the pleasure it provides is merely secondary; yet I think such an activity with such addicting side effects should have been <I>altered</I>, not merely regulated! Especially since this was all 'designed' by an omniscient, omnipotent super-being.<BR/>Yet the followers of this being have taken it in ways their alleged creator never seems to have thought of, such as genital mutilation. He even went so far as to forbid uncircumsized from ever entering his holy city (I suspect that hasn't worked well).<BR/><BR/>Just a few questions, teacher. Oh, and one more thing:<BR/><BR/><B>"And, those who think that “wives submit to your husbands” is STILL a 'dirty word' consider this verse:" </B><BR/><BR/>That's not a <I>word</I>, it's a <I>phrase.</I> Just thought I'd make that clear.GMpilothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07189308176043748343noreply@blogger.com