tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post8465903520767043474..comments2024-03-24T23:41:23.944-07:00Comments on Talk Wisdom: Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian ConscienceChristinewjchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-42083898966190393642009-11-26T16:01:31.456-08:002009-11-26T16:01:31.456-08:00P.S. To Matt -
I look forward to reading your exp...P.S. To Matt -<br /><br />I look forward to reading your explanation post at your blog re: your decision. It is, after all, a very <i>personal</i> Christian decision and I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts and reasons for choosing not to sign it.Christinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-69188685675624869242009-11-26T11:13:02.438-08:002009-11-26T11:13:02.438-08:00Hi Gary,
Very well said! I wholeheartedly agree ...Hi Gary,<br /><br />Very well said! I wholeheartedly agree with you that "the declaration is a reflection of conscience."<br /><br />I agree that, "God is moving his people to speak out for His word and principles."<br /><br />We have been silent too long.<br /><br />I agree that, "Now is the time for a renewed call to prayer and action. That's where the real challenge begins. Christians have just drawn a line in the sand. I have no doubt that we will soon be tested on how seriously we mean it."<br /><br />It is for those purposes that the authors drafted the declaration. We will, sooner or later, ultimately be "tested on how seriously we mean it." There is no doubt in my mind that further persecution of Christian believers is on the horizon.<br /><br />Bit by bit, our freedoms are being taken away by this horrible administration. They don't even pretend to hide it, either!<br /><br />Did you hear that Obama has threatened (or, perhaps it already has been passed?) some kind of decree that there will be no more gatherings on the National Mall in Washington D.C. after Dec. 2010? <br /><br />When I mentioned this to my 22 year old daughter this morning, she said, "that goes against our Constitutional right for freedom to assemble."<br /><br />The trashing of our Constitution has been going on for quite some time, but nothing in the past compares to the anti-Constitutional rights and policies onslaught being wrought by ObamaFRAUD and his thug cronies, czars, and the clueless Dem majority in Congress!<br /><br />Despite all of this, God is still on the Throne in Heaven. That one truth trumps anything (and everything) else that goes on in this chaotic world.<br /><br />I've got some great thoughts to share on Sunday or Monday. Hope you will check back and read it!<br /><br />Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family! Enjoy a great meal and rest in Christ's Love and Faithfulness!<br /><br />In Jesus,<br />ChristineChristinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-12230554266487548542009-11-26T11:00:46.064-08:002009-11-26T11:00:46.064-08:00Hi Matt,
Thanks for responding here. I have had ...Hi Matt,<br /><br />Thanks for responding here. I have had trouble with Facebook in the past too, so I can understand your frustration.<br /><br />Neil also pointed out to me that John MacArthur (who I have much respect for) didn't sign it. He mentioned something about the fact that the complete Gospel is not present in the document. My response was:<br /><br /><i>I think that they wanted to avoid actually preaching the Gospel in the Declaration because they were specifically trying to object to several political "footballs" used by the left to condemn conservative Christians - and state exactly why they object.</i><br /><br />The Gospel is at least <i>mentioned</i> in the document - and that is a good thing. Perhaps the curious will be led to do further research to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. <br /><br />The declaration certainly has created a firestorm of controversy on Facebook! Many of the pro-homosexual, pro-death to unborn babies, atheists, agnostics, liberal "Christians" are ranting and raving (as usual) against what is written.<br /><br />As Gary mentions in his comment <i>"I can't hardly blame a person who's conscience won't let them sign."</i> He was most likely speaking of non-believers. Isn't there a Bible verse about having one's conscience "seared by the truth?" Need to look it up.<br /><br />Every Christian will have to make their own decision whether or not to sign the document. It is quite a commitment - when you examine what it is really saying.<br /><br />Even though I can agree with MacArthur that, "the document falls far short of identifying the one true and ultimate remedy for all of humanity's moral ills: the gospel," the fact that THE GOSPEL ITSELF never falls short of doing so should relieve (IMHO) such a concern. It is our job, as followers of Jesus Christ, to point people in the direction of Christ's Cross in God's Word where they will discover the Gospel <i>for themselves.</i><br /><br />Personally, I think that if the Gospel was in there, such a thing could be used as a reason for people to ignore the rest of the declaration's message. They may assume such a thing as thinking that <i>"since I don't believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, there is no need for this declaration."</i> <br /><br />They are wrong. <br /><br />The declaration's purpose is explained quite well within its paragraphs.<br /><br />I plan to write more about this on Sunday or Monday.<br /><br />Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, Matt! May God bless you all richly with his presence and love!<br /><br />In Him,<br />ChristineChristinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-24890832462647359352009-11-26T09:49:17.864-08:002009-11-26T09:49:17.864-08:00Oh yeah, and Happy Thanksgiving!Oh yeah, and Happy Thanksgiving!Matt W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10119224167961803495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-19367101509938982142009-11-26T09:49:17.865-08:002009-11-26T09:49:17.865-08:00Hey Christine,
I saw your message on Facebook the ...Hey Christine,<br />I saw your message on Facebook the other day, and I tried to respond but for some reason Facebook wouldn't have it. What I tried to say at the time was that I hadn't had time to check it out at that point. Now I have read it, and I have to say, no, I can't sign it. The short version of why is because I fully agree with John MacArthur, but I intend to give a much longer and fuller explanation on my own blog within the next few days or so.<br /><br />MattMatt W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10119224167961803495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-66583043734664106902009-11-26T06:56:50.379-08:002009-11-26T06:56:50.379-08:00Happy Thanksgiving, Christine.
Considering that t...Happy Thanksgiving, Christine.<br /><br />Considering that the declaration is a reflection of conscience, I can't hardly blame a person who's conscience won't let them sign. I put my digital "X" on the document with a great sense of hope that God is moving his people to speak out for His word and principles. Now is the time for a renewed call to prayer and action. That's where the real challenge begins. Christians have just drawn a line in the sand. I have no doubt that we will soon be tested on how seriously we mean it.<br /><br />All the best to you and your family on this holiday.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769241624759010694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-6503595613603811802009-11-25T23:17:09.223-08:002009-11-25T23:17:09.223-08:00There have been some Christian scholars who have d...There have been some Christian scholars who have decided not to sign the declaration because the Gospel is not preached within the document.<br /><br />During a discussion with a friend on Facebook, I stated:<br /><br /><i>I think that they wanted to avoid actually preaching the Gospel in the Declaration because they were specifically trying to object to several political "footballs" used by the left to condemn conservative Christians - and state exactly why they object.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.americanprophet.org/TheManhattanDeclaration.htm" rel="nofollow">American Prophet.org</a> has a really good essay about it, too. The same objection (about not explaining the Gospel in the document) is stated within that article.<br /><br />Excerpt:<br /><br /><b>About 40 of the most well known religious figures in the country have signed the document and others have begun to join suit with 126,863 signatures to date. A notable dissenter is John MacArthur of Grace to You ministries who explains his reason for not signing the declaration.<br /><br /> <br /><br />What MacArthur said in Shepherds' Fellowship posted Nov 24, 2009 was "Although I obviously agree with the document's opposition to same-sex marriage, abortion, and other key moral problems threatening our culture, the document falls far short of identifying the one true and ultimate remedy for all of humanity's moral ills: the gospel. The gospel is barely mentioned in the Declaration. At one point the statement rightly acknowledges, "It is our duty to proclaim the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in its fullness, both in season and out of season"- and then adds an encouraging wish: "May God help us not to fail in that duty." Yet the gospel itself is nowhere presented (much less explained) in the document or any of the accompanying literature. Indeed, that would be a practical impossibility because of the contradictory views held by the broad range of signatories regarding what the gospel teaches and what it means to be a Christian."<br /><br /> <br /><br />I can offer no argument for MacArthur's dissent and in fact I agree with him. Perhaps I along with others think the declaration was not meant to be an instrument of evangelism but only a declaration of the position of those already evangelized. Although it is not irrefutable proof when the positions the declaration proclaims are examined in the light of Christ's warning that Christians will be known by the fruit they produce (Mt 7:16) it becomes difficult to think of anyone standing up for what is outlined in the document if they were not "born again." In fact only a bit of polling is needed to see that just about the only people left in America who are holding to these beliefs are people who have understood and responded to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.</b>Christinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12391603.post-25366719122009861932009-11-25T08:57:56.791-08:002009-11-25T08:57:56.791-08:00Today, as of 8:29 a.m PT, there are now:
116528 s...Today, as of 8:29 a.m PT, there are now:<br /><br /><b>116528 signatures in support of the Manhattan Declaration!<br /><br />...and growing!</b><br /><br />I was particularly interested in reading Albert Mohler's reasons for being one of the original signatories to the document.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.albertmohler.com/2009/11/23/why-i-signed-the-manhattan-declaration/" rel="nofollow">Albert Mohler: Why I Signed the Manhattan Declaration</a><br /><br />Mr. Mohler states:<br /><br /><i>The threat to religious liberty is a clear and present danger -- not a remote danger on a far horizon.</i><br /><br />This is very true. Religious liberty for <b>Christians</b>, in particular, are in danger of being snuffed out via the "hate crimes" laws and the persecution/prosecution that will most likely result as homosexuals and their supporters look for ANYTHING that they can deem as so-called "hate speech" to use against Christians. <br /><br />Another term for this is type of punishment is prosecution for hate <i>thoughts.</i> <br /><br />The fact that God's Word condemns homosexual behavior cannot be compromised. Thus, those who would label such <i>ideas</i> as "hate speech" when the thoughts are articulated verbally, will find any excuse to file a lawsuit and prosecute those who don't "toe the line" of their secular ideology. I have already seen this kind of charge being made against supporters of the document in the comment section at the Manhattan Declaration Facebook site!<br /><br />Mohler writes:<br /><br /><i>There will be Christian leaders, pastors, seminaries, colleges, universities, denominations, churches, and organizations that will abandon the faith on these issues. They will bend the knee to Caesar. Far too many already have. The signatories to The Manhattan Declaration pledge that we will not be among them.</i><br /><br />Those liberal, homosexual behavior <i>affirming</i> "Christian" churches are doing their congregations and those trapped in such behavior a huge disservice. In fact, they may be helping to keep them from confessing their homosexual behavior sins which will keep them from salvation in Jesus Christ. Instead, they will remain <i>slaves</i> to that aberrant sexual behavior (just as heterosexuals who sin sexually would) and they should be ashamed of not allowing Christ's redemptive death on the cross from fully realizing their freedom from the punishment of such sin.<br /><br />Mohler says it well:<br /><br /><i>I surrendered no conviction or confessional integrity to sign that statement. No one asked me to compromise in any manner. I was encouraged that we could stand together to make clear that to come for one of us on these issues is to come for all.</i>Christinewjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434229284833642438noreply@blogger.com