When I first began my website discussion forum several years ago, I made it my goal not to get into petty Christian in-fighting based on slight differences in denominations, traditions, or any other issue that could separate us as Christian brothers and sisters. It was an issue that didn't come up very often at my message board. However, here in the world of blogging, it appears to have reared its ugly head and has become a common occurrance. This is truly sad and unfortunate! There are people who wish to divide, bicker, verbally attack and discredit another's ministry for reasons they have invented within their own minds. This shows how bigoted, biblically mis-informed and INTOLERANT they truly are.
There comes a time when it can no longer be ignored and needs to be addressed. That time is here, folks.
For such a time as this, I will share a post from life's journey (hope he or she doesn't mind) that was posted last evening at my blog in the "Believe It, Then I'll See It" thread.
life's journey said...
"Great post. God is so good! What saddens me are those who claim to be Christian, yet they show no good fruit. They claim the name of Christ yet they seem lost as anything. This jadedandopinionated woman is a very sad example. She knocks and makes fun of you and others like this Thomas (if she is a true Christian, she probably never read "division among the brethren is an abomination according to God.") She hates when anyone else talks about Jesus. Why? Why is it she comes across so angry at Christians, at the world, at her family, at life and probably even at God? Why is she obsessed with you? Maybe because you have what she doesn't? Is it broken dreams in her life? (I think she once tried to be a singer and it didn't work.) Unhappiness with her life? I truly feel sad when I read her mother knocked her teeth out. That was horrible especially by her own mother. A bar of soap though for a second may have been appropriate {I've experienced that.} By her own mouth she denies the Lord she claims to know. Please keep this woman who is carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders in your prayers. It is not religion she needs, but a saving relationship with Jesus. God wishes that none of us should perish, but that all should come to everlasting life. Just look at how much mercy and love he had for us. Only God knows our souls' condition. I will not judge. I can only go by what I read and it is sad. Just remember Christ said if they hated me, they will hate you. Much blessings to you and thanks for your encouraging testimonies.
9:48 PM "
I read that post by life's journey last night and decided that I would reply to it in the morning. When I need guidance in answering certain posts, I will often ask God, through prayer, to lead me to Scripture that will project HIS wisdom, not my own. When I need to answer a difficult post and/or disagreeable person behind such a post, tempers often flare and lead to a stalemate. The "I'm right, no, I'm right" war wages on ad nauseum.
This morning, when reading the Daily Devotional from Charles Stanley's website, the answer I needed was right there! God is truly a God who answers prayer! I will share it here, then add some comments as they will apply to this blog battle subject.
18 July
Godly Wisdom
EPHESIANS 5:15-17
It is decision time. We've considered all we know about a situation, taken into account other opinions, and assessed the talents and skills available. With some quick prayers to God, we make our choice. But God's Word tells us we have gone about this the wrong way. We have used human wisdom instead of His. Our thinking is limited to what our minds can conceive of and understand—even the smartest among us are unwise if we separate our reasoning from the Lord's. Our reasoning is also unspiritual. Apart from Christ, our thoughts are governed by our sin nature, which always puts "self" first. Finally, the source of our ungodly thinking is demonic. Adam and Eve's acceptance of Satan's lies resulted in our slavery to sin (Romans 6:20) and our tendency to believe the Devil's words. On the other hand, godly wisdom seeks to gain the Lord's viewpoint and respond according to scriptural principles. It asks, "How would God interpret these events? What does God want me to do?" Then it answers these questions based on the truth of the Bible. As new creations in Christ, we are given the capacity to know what pleases and displeases God, and we are also empowered to obey. (1 Corinthians 2:16) Through reliance on the Holy Spirit, we can become wise. (1 Corinthians 1:30) Wisdom has two factors: perspective—that is, how we look at things—and action. Unwise living takes us outside God's will, while choosing the Lord's way leads to His approval and a fruitful life.
Foolishness or wisdom: which will you pursue today?
IN TOUCH® Copyright © 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 IN TOUCH MINISTRIES®, ITM, Inc., Atlanta, Georgia, USA, used with permission. All rights reserved. This content and more resources can be found on http://www.intouch.org/.This Month’s Devotionals Copyright © 2005 IN TOUCH Magazine. In Touch Ministries. All Rights Reserved.
Wow! Does that devotional address our current "blog battle" dilemma just perfectly or what?
According to the message of that devotional, can you see that our own secular humanistic wisdom always falls short of Godly wisdom?! If so, then how does one determine whether or not he/she is adhering to and utilizing godly wisdom and not secular humanistic wisdom?
Answer: The Bible and Jesus Christ, the Living Word.
That is our way to find out who is adhering to God's spiritual wisdom vs. our own which puts "self" first and, without Christ, is governed by our sinful nature. It also tends to separate our reasoning from the Lord, and thus causes us to rely on ungodly thinking whose source is demonic.
As the Charles Stanley devotional stated:
"As new creations in Christ, we are given the capacity to know what pleases and displeases God, and we are also empowered to obey. (1 Corinthians 2:16)
1 Corinthians 2:16 - For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Through reliance on the Holy Spirit, we can become wise. (1 Corinthians 1:30)
1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Wisdom has two factors: perspective—that is, how we look at things—and action.
Unwise living takes us outside God's will, while choosing the Lord's way leads to His approval and a fruitful life.
Jesus said:
Matthew 7:16 - Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:20 - Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Now, it is true that either side could use those verses to their particular advantage. But whose claims would be truth? How do we examine that?
The devotional gives us the answer:
" Adam and Eve's acceptance of Satan's lies resulted in our slavery to sin (Romans 6:20) and our tendency to believe the Devil's words. On the other hand, godly wisdom seeks to gain the Lord's viewpoint and respond according to scriptural principles. It asks, "How would God interpret these events? What does God want me to do?" Then it answers these questions based on the truth of the Bible. As new creations in Christ, we are given the capacity to know what pleases and displeases God, and we are also empowered to obey. (1 Corinthians 2:16) Through reliance on the Holy Spirit, we can become wise. (1 Corinthians 1:30) "
We must examine who is seeking to gain the Lord's viewpoint and respond according to scriptural principles. Through reliance on the Holy Spirit (Who indwells born-again believers who confess their sin, ask for forgiveness and ask Jesus Christ into their hearts as Lord and Savior of their lives) we are then empowered to obey and can become wise.
Take special note of the fact that we DO NOT do this on our own! It is through reliance on the Holy Spirit! If the Holy Spirit does not indwell the person, how can they rely on His guidance?
Those who mock born-again Christians do so BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING THEM!!!
Now, before you get all huffy and puffy about what I just said and claim that I am judging others or holding a "holier than thou" attitude, please look at what Jesus himself said about this matter:
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Before John 3:16 can be applied to a person, Jesus himself said you must be "born again". This is so important that Jesus repeated the need within 4 sentences of each other.
[ Note: These verses were written and recorded by John the Apostle, NOT John the Baptist as someone stated incorrectly at their blog.]
Next, let's look at John 3:16:
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This does not mean a casual belief, ( for the Bible tells us that even the demons recognized who Jesus was), but the difference was that the demons had chosen to rebel against God and not follow Him! Rebelling is evident when one chooses not to follow Jesus' commandment before his ascension into heaven.
First, here is what God the Father said in the Old Testament:
Deuteronomy 11:22 - For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
In the New Testament, Jesus said:
John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 15:10 - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Next, look at Jesus' warning not to "love the world":
John 15:19 - If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
What is Jesus referring to when he states "the world"? The sinful nature that the world indulges in. Yet, as stated in the Ten Commandments and also here in James:
James 2:8 - If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Christians often coin a single phrase that represents these two (as well as other) verses. We are to 'love the sinner, and hate the sin.' That's biblical, contrary to what many liberal, Scripture-rejecting , self-labeled 'Christians' may claim. They tend to love the sinner (good start), but unfortunately, at the same time celebrate the sin right along with the sinner! Leading others away in this regard is not what Jesus would have us do!!
Jesus didn't do anything like "celebrating the sin right along with the sinner" during his earthly ministry! In fact, He did the exact opposite!! He told the woman caught in adultery to "leave her life of sin". Jesus never left the forgiven person the same way he had found them! This is key to understanding the Gospel and what we, as Christians, are to do when representing Him on earth!!
Next, why does "natural man" NOT RECOGNIZE the things of the Spirit of God and CANNOT RECEIVE the things of the Spirit of God?
I Corinthians 2:13 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Next, how does a person recognize another who does not have the Spirit of God indwelled within?
Jude 1:19 - These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
What is a certain indication that a person is a true Christian? Why do certain people who hate evangelical, born-again Christians resent them so much?
1 John 4:12 - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
What is the certain indication that we are Jesus' disciples? Jesus' own words tell us:
John 13:35 - By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
There is no such thing as a 'Lone Ranger' Christian!!
If you are not in a fellowship of love with, and between, your Christian brothers and sisters, and, this is key, involved in the TRUTH (FROM SCRIPTURAL AGREEMENT THROUGH HERMENEUTICS AND PRINCIPLES OF BIBLICAL EXEGESIS ) of the BIBLE, then SOMETHING IS WRONG!
How do we find out what that "SOMETHING IS WRONG" thing is? There are many Scriptures that we could list, however, Romans 6 sums it up quite well:
Romans 6:1-23 (NLT)
Sin's Power Is Broken
Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more kindness and forgiveness? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? 3 Or have you forgotten that when we became Christians and were baptized to become one with Christ Jesus, we died with him? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised as he was. 6 Our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also share his new life. 9 We are sure of this because Christ rose from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 He died once to defeat sin, and now he lives for the glory of God. 11 So you should consider yourselves dead to sin and able to live for the glory of God through Christ Jesus.
12 Do not let sin control the way you live;* do not give in to its lustful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your body become a tool of wickedness, to be used for sinning. Instead, give yourselves completely to God since you have been given new life. And use your whole body as a tool to do what is right for the glory of God. 14 Sin is no longer your master, for you are no longer subject to the law, which enslaves you to sin. Instead, you are free by God's grace.
Freedom to Obey God
15 So since God's grace has set us free from the law, does this mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! 16 Don't you realize that whatever you choose to obey becomes your master? You can choose sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God and receive his approval. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you have obeyed with all your heart the new teaching God has given you. 18 Now you are free from sin, your old master, and you have become slaves to your new master, righteousness.
19 I speak this way, using the illustration of slaves and masters, because it is easy to understand. Before, you let yourselves be slaves of impurity and lawlessness. Now you must choose to be slaves of righteousness so that you will become holy.
20 In those days, when you were slaves of sin, you weren't concerned with doing what was right. 21 And what was the result? It was not good, since now you are ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Footnotes:
6:12
Or Do not let sin reign in your body, which is subject to death.
Hi Christine - Yes the time has come to speak the truth and not pussy foot around. I just posted at our new blog as well.
ReplyDeleteThere are many troubled individuals out there who claim to know Christ and don't have the slightest idea of Who He really is.
Just keep speaking the truth. Hopefully, one day something will click. Obviously, they keep coming here to your blog and reading and we know "God's Word will never return void."
Much love to you and your family, from Irene and ours. She's looking forward to saying hi to you soon (She's busy for 3 weeks with the kids at 3 different Vacation Bible schools.)
Lord bless you -
Stephen
Wow Christine,
ReplyDeleteYou never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of scripture. What a good post.
To kick off our VBS yesterday morning, we studied this very thing. Matthew 7:15-29 about Godly wisdom vs false prophets. I remember when I first found these passages and thinking about those who live doing work for the Lord but yet he says he never knew them. What makes the difference? Are they working, doing His will or their own?
Our minister used this same passage for the sermon yesterday and boy was it good! It is our tendancy to think we know what God wants instead of really stopping to ask and then taking the time to listen. That is what He wants us to get better at. Ask, Seek, Knock.
We must seek to know God, who he is & what he says. Then we put it into practice. Not when we like what he says, but always. Living a life sold out for Christ. Putting Him before our own desires. Allowing Him to be Lord of our lives. That's what the Christian life is all about.
How funny that this person feels the need to pray for me. I've brought this blog and SB's old one to the attention of not only my pastor, but my friend down the street who is the pastor of a church, and one of my students who is a pastor's wife. They are all praying for you to see the error of your ways in your affiliation with SB. They pray for him to see that he's preaching the law and not the spirit, and that in so doing, he's preaching hatred in the name of God.
ReplyDeleteAs for my singing career that didn't work out, and broken dreams... it worked out just fine, and continues to do so. I have been the guest soloist at the National Cathedral about 25 times at this point, I've sung with the Boston Lyric and Washington National opera companies in lead roles, I've done 5 national tours of Broadway musicals in lead roles, I've created 2 roles in premiers at the Kennedy Center...last year I sang at Lincoln Center in a Christian concert (for free) and I've performed about 6 or 8 times at Carnegie Hall. As a teacher, I've had students perform on Broadway, in films, on television, win national talent contests, have recording contracts, national TV commercials, be accepted to the premier conservatories etc etc. I'd say I've achieved the kind of success that most will never know, unfortunately, by using the gifts God gave me. I've been blessed more than 10 fold, both spiritually and financially, because the gift is from God and only He has provided me these opportunities. My fruit fills an orchard, and it's all good, because God has provided it. This is not information that you really need to know, but if you and your friends are going to single me out by name and pass erroneous judgement, I thought perhaps you should see these errors.
Do I come across angry at my family? Yes, they are not Christians and they persecute each other, including my 3 year old daughter. Do I come across angry at Christians. No, not at all. I come across angry at a particular group of Christians who sell their testimonies and spew hatred of one group or another. As a Christian, if you're NOT angry that people spread evil under the guise of good, you need to rethink your position. To say that I am "probably angry at God" is not only speculation, but passing judgement to better make a point in a post. I have never indicated, even remotely, that I have any anger at God. The reson for this is that I have no anger at Him. I have only love for Him, as He has for me, and every single person who believes in him. What is bigoted and INTOLERANT is ANY ministry that excludes anyone by holding them to a set of rules that they've made up themselves. God excludes no one who seeks Him. Ever. I have never once denied the Lord. Not once. I don't hate when people talk about Jesus...I hate when people SELL Him. I hate when people have a testimony to give, and they will only give it if you pay them money and have a schedule of fees. A testimony should be given freely, as Jesus gave His to us.
To pass judgement, to speculate, to add your own interpretation to words you didn't have to read then to say that you don't judge... if you think that's not judgement, fine. I'd rethink that too, however.
It's admirable to quote scripture as you do. I believe that your faith is strong, and your intentions good. I believe that your relationship with the Lord is strong. I also believe that your affiliation with a ministry run by a man who is neither educated, nor ordained by any church, is, at best, precarious.
If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Don't sneak around then attack me personally behind my back. I wouldn't have ever come across this if I hadn't received about 25 emails today letting me know that you felt it necessary to attack me personally. You are doing the very thing you accuse me of, but somehow it's ok that you do it, because you're a "true" Christian, right? You're born again, and I'm not...isn't that right? That's what you've said. You said that creating these sorts of wars are divisive, which goes against God's plan, yet you perpetuated that divisiveness and somehow that sits well with you. I don't understand that logic at all.
One last bit of information for you...and then I hope you'll find it in your heart to stop attacking me personally, and leave me alone, since you don't agree with what I have to say. (I don't generally read your blog because I don't agree with you, and I don't read SB's blog because I believe he is a false teacher...why you seek me out is beyond me)
When I was 14 and came to know God, I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior. I asked him to fill my heart and forgive my past sins, and to show me the path I was meant to go down, according to God's will. I wanted to be a doctor, and for some reason I kept hearing music in my head. I ignored it, because, I couldn't sing. Finally, when I told Him that I didn't want to be a musician, I wanted to be a doctor, and that I couldn't sing anyway, I woke up one day at 16 and could sing. I have followed that path ever since. Some messages are too blatant to ignore...He has a way of hitting you over the head with them.
Pass whatever judgement you like, as you are want to do anyway. I know what my relationship with the Lord is. I have no fear. I have no doubt. I've asked you as nicely as I know how on several occasions for you to stop attacking me personally on your blog. I have not mentioned you on mine, as I said I wouldn't. What will it take for you to honor my request? What will it take for you to stop attacking me and feeling justified to do so? What makes your attacks any different than the things of which you accuse me? There is no difference, clearly. I hope you will open your eyes to this.
Hello Jaded&Opinionated,
ReplyDeleteI have just read your post here and wanted to respond to a few of your statements. I am doing this at the risk of having you ridicule & hate me, but I hope that won't be the result.
You stated that you have shared Stephen & Christine's blogs with some pastors and other Christians and they are praying for Christine to see her error in associating with Stephen. You stated one minister said Stephen's error was in teaching the law and not grace. Well, I must disagree. I think Stephen's message loudly shouts the message of grace - it's just that he also tells of God's holiness, righteousness and judgment. These are not things he has made up - these are things we learn about in the Bible. He is simply fulfilling the great commission. Jesus did this very thing (teach the law). How can we as Christians, ignore part of the Bible. I keep hearing homosexuals, and those who support the homosexual lifestyle say that Jesus never mentions homosexuality. I don't understand how anyone can read the Bible and think Jesus thought being homosexual, or a liar or a thief or a drunkard or an adulterer, etc was ok. His grace is offerred to all - but only those who repent and accept his gift will get into heaven. We cannot pick and choose which verses to live by or accept. We either accept it all or none of it.
I just read a great book called "The Way of the Master". It talks of the very thing you disagree with. It shows how Jesus taught from the law. People have to know and understand the law, and how our inability to keep it, is exactly what opens our eyes to the need for a savior. If all we ever hear is Jesus' love for us, then we fail to see the need for a savior. We miss the fact that our sin separates us from God. I highly recommend this book to you.
You also stated that you disagree with Stephen because he sells his testimony. Well again, I disagree with you. I have heard his testimony several times and have never paid a dime for it. How much have you had to pay to hear his testimony?
Yes, I am one of the so-called "lurkers". I have visited Blogzies blog daily since all this bickering began a few weeks ago. I have also visited your site a few times because of references you made at Blogzies. I am sorry for the pain and rejection you have endured from your family. I have a daughter who is severly brain damaged, so I know what it's like to have rejection of a child. My family completely ignores her. She has to live in a special nursing facility and the only time my mom has gone there is when we are headed shopping and I stop there to take her clean laundry and pick up the dirty. She has never talked to her or touched her during one of these visits. She does not mention her to me unless she is in the hospital (maybe) etc. It hurts deeply, but I know she is acting out of her own pain. She does not know how to handle this situation. She has never learned to give it to God and trust His ways. Anyway, in saying that, I understand your hurt, but I don't understand your need to expel such filthy language in sharing about it. I also don't understand you encouraging all the filth and pornography that goes on at Blogzies. I have to wonder if you would be willing to take Jesus there with you. Does he love every person who posts there? Of course! Would he join in with and encourage the behavior and beliefs going on there? Absolutely not. It hurts him very much to see the celebration of sin there.I could give several scriptures to explain why I say this, but I know from reading your posts that you don't like that - so I won't. I'll just speak from my heart.
And my last thought is about your reference to asking Christine to not attack you at her blog. You stated that you have not mentioned her on yours. Well that may be true, I have not read all of your posts, but I have read numerous attacks of her from you on Blogzies blog. As a matter of opinion, I feel more hatred from you toward Stephen and Christine than any other person there. Many days, you are the first to say anything negative about either of them. I really do not understand your reason for doing this. Why do you hate them so much? Why are you so insistant on dragging their names through the mud? It's almost like you are obsessed with making them look bad. I really don't think what Christine has done here and what you do everyday compares at all. It seems to me you post things most days for the "lurkers" to be hurt by. That is not what I see STephen and Christine doing at all.
In closing Jaded, I just want to say that I hope and pray someday all this disagreement can be resolved. I think we must be seeking what God wants. We can only do that by being in the Word, agreeing with God and being obedient to what His Word says. I honestly think another step in the right direction would be for you to quit posting hateful things about Christine and Stephen. Can we agree to disagree and call a truce? I think respect is what is missing - and w/o respect there is no love. We are to speak the truth in love, and that is what I have tried to do here. I hope you can agree. God bless you Jaded as you continue to grow in your faith.
MadGay - I will never get over my brother being gay. I will only continue to show him love, look for opportunities to be together and continue to pray for him. I have never excluded him or judged him. I have never been rude to his partner or told them what I believe about homosexuality. So I would really like to know just what it is about my behavior to my brother that your church considers sin.
ReplyDeleteNo Madgay. I won't delete your post. I think it is important for others to see this discussion. Readers here can see for themselves how biblically-upheld viewpoints are often severely misunderstood, mischaracterized and attacked by those on the other side.
ReplyDeleteMy friend Anna shared some observations with me about this and I think it is important to share them here.
Anna had stated to me, "People feel compelled to destroy the Word of God. They do not feel the same impetus to destroy Hinduism, Buddism or many others.
It's because there is no truth, no power in those religions. In
order to justify their behavior, they must destroy truth. Other
religions have been targeted at times, but never like Judaism and
Christianity.
MadGay stated: "I actually find your type of hatred, cloaked in what you call 'love' abhorrent and a thousand times more disgusting than Fred Phelps."
Can you tell me where I showed hatred in my post? Most of it was directly from the Bible and many of the verses included Jesus' own words.
If you truly were to examine your own heart, Madgay, deep down you might see that what is really going on is that many homosexuals do not want to be accountable to God or anyone else. The reason is so they can continue to indulge their flesh.
This "right to indulge in the flesh" happens to be the basis for
the "sexual revolution" that has been going on over the last 30 years.
I know that I am expanding this into the political arena, however, what happens politically, socially, and morally within our laws in this country is extremely important to evangelical Christians for it affects keeping OUR freedoms intact.
The sexual revolution has arisen out of the relativistic, secular humanistic mindset of the left and groups like the ACLU. Their goal is clear. Through the liberal courts, the left continues to trample on and attempts to eliminate, the free speech rights and freedom of association rights that those who uphold Biblical morals, values, and standards want in their lives. When legislation is presented in the states, the gay marriage issue is soundly defeated (some by as much as 75% voting for traditional one man/one woman marriage laws). However, the radical left knows it can't get it's way in the voting booth so they use the liberal judges in courts to strike down the majority vote(s) of the people. What is wrong with this picture? That's anarchy!
Madgay stated: "Love is acceptance."
Acceptance of what? What is real love? Do you know? What did Jesus say was real love?
Madgay: "Do you really think God judges people for loving someone of the same sex, are you that sad?"
I love many people of the same sex. We have appropriate physical hugs and kisses of affection, but I don't have sex with them. Why? I don't have such an attraction and also because I desire to follow God's Word on this issue. I promised to keep myself for my husband only and because I wanted to. And almost 22 years later, we have kept that promise to each other. God knew what He was doing when he invented marriage and I am so grateful that we have our union bonded in Christ's love.
There is a huge difference between love and lust. I have empathy for those who struggle with same-sex attraction, but God's Word is clear on the issue. There can be no compromise. Just like any other sin, what is needed is confession, repentance (turning away from the sin), receiving the forgiveness through Jesus Christ's sacrificial death on the cross, and joining him in the hope that the Resurrection provides for life eternal with God. No sin on this earth is worth the cost of missing that (IMO).
Do you know what God's Word says about this? Have you even investigated it for yourself? Don't just take a pastor's interpretation. I suggest going directly to God's Word and reading it for yourself. You may discover that what you perceive as "judgment" by evangelical, born-again Christians is actually discernment of truth vs. error. (See 2 Timothy 2:15)
Here's the RSV version:
2 Timothy 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
This verse demonstrates how important it is to "rightly handle the word of truth." This is where we see the difference between what Jaded says and professes(as a Christian believer) and what the Bible says we are to believe and profess as approved workmen in Christ. The difference could not be more clear. What a stark contrast there is between the Christian posters here and what Jaded perceives within her religion. That is what my original post was actually all about.
Madgay stated: "As far as failed show biz careers go, there is nothing more pathetic than a parent trying to live vicariously through their child, and tramping them to endless auditions ad nauseam."
Is this comment regarding an earlier post about my daughter's ambition to be a commercial actress? This is her dream and ambition, not mine. As a parent who loves her child, I wanted her to pursue her own interests and dreams as she ventures through life. My husband and I have financed her acting lessons and have supported her through each (sometimes difficult, but often rewarding) step of the journey. She is now headed off to college to pursue a degree in Communications.
Your rant about my parenting skills just goes to show how little you know about me. Just who is really guilty of casting stones? You (incorrectly) accused Jojo of casting the stone. Take a good look in the mirror, Madgay, and you'll see that it is you who is guilty in that regard.
Wow Madgay. I was just about to reply to your post and next thing I know, you have deleted it.
ReplyDeleteI did find it curious that you said nothing about your incorrect accusation against Jojo.
Anyway, since I already did the research, I will answer your (now deleted) post that claimed that Jesus "never said anything about homosexuality."
Homosexual activists who promote same-sex “marriage” often argue that Christianity is confused on this issue because “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.” A proper understanding of Who Jesus is and what He requires is essential for answering this misconception.
Consider these facts:
Jesus also never said anything directly about rape, incest or domestic violence. Are those things okay, too?
Many teachings and deeds of Christ are not included in the Gospel accounts, as John writes in John 21:25.
Christ did say that God created people “in the beginning” as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as “one flesh” (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9). Nothing is said about any other type of union.
When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Jewish law. He told the woman caught in adultery to “Go and sin no more” (John 8:11). He warned people not only that the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts (Matthew 5:28). And he confronted the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband. If he had intended to change this longtime understanding of God’s requirements for human sexuality, He would have said so.
Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God’s wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12 and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets clearly described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.
Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, which was revealed in Matthew 16:13-20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9:18-21, John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning (John 1:1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere). So, Jesus was part of the Godhead as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:17 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul’s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter’s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John’s in Revelation 22:15.
So — the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,” they reveal that they really haven’t understood Scripture, or Who Christ is.
Maybe some of these points can help you toward a clearer understanding.
I would just like to say that all this arguing back and forth and slamming others etc is extremely UNchristian. Jesus preached love for all people. How on earth can you be so judgemental and think for a moment that you are doing what Jesus wanted? Even if you are correct in your beliefs and assumptions, how on earth do you think you are going to draw people to the message you claim to have with vitriol and spite? If you believe as Jesus did that all are worthy of love and acceptance, how do you reconcile your behavior with that message? Give it a rest people. Practice the love that you preach. Peace.
ReplyDeleteWelcome Traci. Let me pose a scenario and a question to you - and I ask you to answer this respectfully.
ReplyDeleteYou see a little four year old child - not your own - chasing after a rolling ball in the middle of a busy street.
An 18 wheeler, tractor trailer comes barrelling down the road at a very high rate of speed. Neither the child nor the driver of the truck see each other. A terrible accident will no doubt happen, unless something is done.
What is more "loving" for you to do?
1. Stand on the sidewalk and try to yell to the child or the driver to watch out!
2. Not even think about your own life and run out into the middle of the road to grab the child and pull him/her out of harm's way;
3. Stand by, say absolutely nothing, and just "pray" the child will not get hit;
4. It's not your child, it's none of your business and just walk on by, continuing about your business.
I honestly would like an answer from you.
Hello Susan Smith,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to my blog!
I'm not sure who your post was addressed to or where you are coming from with it, but I have always found it helpful to look at the surrounding verses in order to establish the true message and point that a particular Proverb is sharing:
Let's see what else Proverbs 10 (NLT) has to say before and after verse 19:
The proverbs of Solomon:
A wise child* brings joy to a father; a foolish child brings grief to a mother.
2 Ill-gotten gain has no lasting value, but right living can save your life.
3 The Lord will not let the godly starve to death, but he refuses to satisfy the craving of the wicked.
4 Lazy people are soon poor; hard workers get rich.
5 A wise youth works hard all summer; a youth who sleeps away the hour of opportunity brings shame.
6 The godly are showered with blessings; evil people cover up their harmful intentions.
7 We all have happy memories of the godly, but the name of a wicked person rots away.
8 The wise are glad to be instructed, but babbling fools fall flat on their faces.
9 People with integrity have firm footing, but those who follow crooked paths will slip and fall.
10 People who wink at wrong cause trouble, but a bold reproof promotes peace.*
11 The words of the godly lead to life; evil people cover up their harmful intentions.
12 Hatred stirs up quarrels, but love covers all offenses.
13 Wise words come from the lips of people with understanding, but fools will be punished with a rod.
14 Wise people treasure knowledge, but the babbling of a fool invites trouble.
15 The wealth of the rich is their fortress; the poverty of the poor is their calamity.
16 The earnings of the godly enhance their lives, but evil people squander their money on sin.
17 People who accept correction are on the pathway to life, but those who ignore it will lead others astray.
18 To hide hatred is to be a liar; to slander is to be a fool.
19 Don't talk too much, for it fosters sin. Be sensible and turn off the flow!
20 The words of the godly are like sterling silver; the heart of a fool is worthless.
21 The godly give good advice, but fools are destroyed by their lack of common sense.
22 The blessing of the Lord makes a person rich, and he adds no sorrow with it.
23 Doing wrong is fun for a fool, while wise conduct is a pleasure to the wise.
24 The fears of the wicked will all come true; so will the hopes of the godly.
25 Disaster strikes like a cyclone, whirling the wicked away, but the godly have a lasting foundation.
26 Lazy people are a pain to their employer. They are like smoke in the eyes or vinegar that sets the teeth on edge.
27 Fear of the Lord lengthens one's life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.
28 The hopes of the godly result in happiness, but the expectations of the wicked are all in vain.
29 The Lord protects the upright but destroys the wicked.
30 The godly will never be disturbed, but the wicked will be removed from the land.
31 The godly person gives wise advice, but the tongue that deceives will be cut off.
32 The godly speak words that are helpful, but the wicked speak only what is corrupt.
Footnotes:
10:1 Hebrew son; also in 10:1b.
10:10 As in Greek version; Hebrew reads but babbling fools fall flat on their faces.
Jaded,
ReplyDeleteMy post "The Battle of the Blogs" was in response to your blogpost called "Fundo-Con '05." In your post, you continually disparage Christian believers with whom you disagree with. My response was a biblically based one filled with quotes from the Bible to back up what I was trying to convey. These are not my words, points and answers; they are God's Word, points and answers.
Let's examine one of your comments and then the response I posted from God's Word.
Jaded stated, "This very vocal, very frightening trend by a group of so-called Christians who believe that you have to be a born-again evangelical in order to be a TRUE Christian is, quite frankly, vile and reprehensible. It's nothing short of blasphemy."
Where did you get your opinion from, Jaded? It certainly flies in the face of what Jesus stated in John 3:3.
What, exactly, did Jesus himself say about this matter?
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Also, what does the term "evangelical" actually mean? It means to share the Good News of the Gospel. What could possibly be blasphemous about that?
Also, your opinion that only certain Christians should be allowed to evangelize is completely wrong. The Great Commission was given to every follower of Jesus. We were each made for a mission in this world.
Jesus speaking:
In the same way that you gave me a mission in the world, I give them a mission in the world. (John 17:18 (Msg)
Our mission, as Christians, is a continuation of Jesus' mission on earth. It is a wonderful privilege and, of course, should not be taken lightly. Telling others how they can have eternal life is the greatest thing you can do for them!
William James said, "The best use of life is to spend it for something that outlasts it." The truth is, only the kingdom of God is going to last. EVERYTHING else will eventually vanish. That is why we must live purpose-driven lives. If anyone fails to fulfill their God-given mission on earth, then they will have wasted the life God gave them.
I think that this is what Jerry Falwell meant when he made his statement. Granted, it was poorly worded, but he meant well.
Paul said, "My life is worth nothing unless I use it for doing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus - the work of telling others the Good News about God's wonderful kindness and love." Acts 20:24
Jaded, have you ever considered the fact that there are people on this planet whom only you will be able to reach, because of where you live and what God has made you to be? But if you have the attitude that you are content in your religion and everyone else can believe what they want, then where are you in regards to Jesus' Great Commission command?
Stephen is where he is because of experiences in his life. All the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. There are people that only he could reach because of the suffering in his past and the outreach he now has through his ministry.
I am where I am today because of experiences in my life, too. I have shared some of my journey to Christ on this blog. It includes the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. We all have each of these things in our lives. But God works them all for good. That doesn't mean that the bad and ugly ARE good. It means he can use ANYTHING that happens in our lives FOR a future turn for good. The crucifixion of Christ is the ultimate evidence of this fact. God turned the worst thing that could have happened (crucifixion and death of Christ for our sins) into the glory of the Risen Christ and our future assurance of Resurrection to life eternal!
Both of us realize that not everyone is going to be receptive to the Gospel and God is the one who does the conversion, not us. Our job is to share the Gospel. It can be rejected by many for all different reasons, but those who accept the message and are saved as a result are worth it! God doesn't want ANYONE to perish! He wants all to COME TO REPENTANCE.
Think about it Jaded. If just one person will be in heaven someday because of you, your life will have made a difference for eternity! We all need to look around at our personal mission fields and pray, "God, who have you put in my life for me to tell about Jesus?"
We don't know the day nor hour of Jesus' return. What we do know for sure is this: Jesus will not return until everyone God wants to hear the Good News has heard it. Jesus said, "The Good Nes about God's kingdom will be preached in all the world, to every nation. Then the end will come." (Matt. 24:14)
The enemy of our souls would rather we do anything besides share our faith. He will let us do all kinds of good things as long as it doesn't result in taking others to heaven with us! How do I know? I have experienced this firsthand...many times. The moment I became serious about my faith and mission for Christ, Satan was busy throwing all kinds of diversions at me. When that happens, I remember the words of Jesus: "Anyone who lets himself be distracted from the work I plan for him is not fit for the Kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62 LB)
The hard part is, in order to fulfill our mission, we need to abandon our own agenda and accept God's agenda for our lives. This is easier said than done. I am not saying that we abandon everything, of course, but we sometimes need to yield our rights, expectations, dreams, plans and ambitions to him. I have done this and experienced this several times over the course of my life. What's great is that the things that I had abandoned weren't satisfying anyway!! The things that mean the most to me (Jesus, family, friends, a life committed to worship, fellowship, spiritual growth, ministry and fulfilling my mission on earth) are most fulfilling to me afterall!! I wouldn't trade ANYTHING from my past for what I have in Jesus Christ now.
God is the focus of my life and I want to be used by God. In order to do that, I must care about what God cares about. The Bible tells me that he wants his lost children found! The whole theme of the Bible is this fact. Nothing matters more to God; the Cross proves that. I care about what He most cares about; and that is the redemption of the people he made!
As fellow Christians, don't we have this is common?
This is the theme of the rest of my life. Do you consider it as a focus for your life, too?
NOTHING will make a greater difference for eternity!
Stephen said...
ReplyDeleteWhat is more "loving" for you to do?
1. Stand on the sidewalk and try to yell to the child or the driver to watch out!
2. Not even think about your own life and run out into the middle of the road to grab the child and pull him/her out of harm's way;
3. Stand by, say absolutely nothing, and just "pray" the child will not get hit;
4. It's not your child, it's none of your business and just walk on by, continuing about your business.
I honestly would like an answer from you.
*******************************
Alright Stephen: What would I do? I would run into the street and grab the child without a moments thought.
That said, if you believe for one moment that cultivating a spirit of spite and anger and rudeness is equal to saving the life of a child, I will have to respectfully disagree with you.
All I said was that I believe the spirit generated on this blog and a few others I've been privileged to read is neither Christian nor helpful. Jesus preached LOVE. Period.
Even if someone disagrees with the beliefs, thoughts, actions or whatever of another person, it never makes nastiness and hatred and anger and name calling or scripture quoting or whatever alright in my book. That's all.
The whole "I'm right. You're wrong." mentality is what's wrong with the world today in my opinion. It is not our place to judge or be judgmental. That is for whatever higher power there may be...not humans.
When we tell someone they are wrong absolutely, we are in essence proclaiming ourselves to be a judge of that person and that is most definitely not what the bible supports.
Thank you for visiting my blog today. Peace.
Traci - thanks for your response. I knew what it would be.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Because you are a mother who would give her life for her child, not even considering your own. You would run into a burning house to save any of your daughters -- jump into a pool to save a drowning child. You know why? Because you have something inside of your heart: true love.
I am not a Baptist. I am not a Methodist. I am not a Congregationalist. I am not a Presbyterian.
I am a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ.
Traci, I run into that street every day to pull countless children out of getting run over by that 18 wheeler.
There are numerous people on the sidewalk praying daily for those children and myself as I run into that traffic to pull that child out of harms way. There are others running into that traffic with me.
Some children refuse to come out - they want their ball instead.
Other children grab our hands, and safely comeback to the sidewalk.
Some other bystanders on the sidewalk yell, "Who do you think you are running into that street after those children? It's none of your business! Let them play!"
We cannot force a child out of the street - only plead with them to come back to the sidewalk. The decision is theirs.
As we try, people are yelling, "Please, listen to them - get out of the truck's way!"
Other's are yelling even louder, "Don't listen to them - they are liars! You won't get hurt! Don't let them ruin your fun. Don't take their hands!"
Traci, out of anyone, you should know what it could have been like if someone grabbed you out of harms way from that certain individual many, many years ago.
Sometimes you may ground your child, spank them, or give them a "time out" for doing something wrong. Why? Because you LOVE them - you want to protect them. You try to teach them the difference between right and wrong.
Traci, God wants us to know the difference between right and wrong. He's told us in His Word, the Bible.
Religion isn't the answer. I am not the answer. Christine is not the answer. No church nor pastor nor evangelist nor denomination is the answer.
Only Jesus Christ is The Answer (John 14:6.)
We speak out of love, yet we are mocked all day long. The Bible says "Good will be called evil and evil will be called good."
Jesus said, "If they hate you, remember, it's because they hated me first."
I am far from perfect. Get to know me for one day and you'll see my imperfections. The only one who is perfect is Jesus Christ. He is the Great Physician, the answer for all of our needs.
Thanks you for being kind and answering my question.
May God bless you on your journey of healing your painful past - you'll make it - I know you will.
Lord bless you -
Stephen
Thank you for your welcome, Christine. My post was not intended for any single person. The Word of God is for everyone and one Word from God can change your life forever. Words are powerful. I am coming from Jerusalem, Israel. God bless you richly this day.
ReplyDeleteStephen said...
ReplyDeleteI run into that street every day to pull countless children out of getting run over by that 18 wheeler.
***********************************
I'm quite sure you believe you are doing the same thing a loving parent would do however I will just have to respectfully continue to disagree with you. I don't believe that spewing spite has anything to do with parental type love. Telling people how wrong they are in a hateful way will never be alright with me. Peace to you and yours.
Traci,
ReplyDeleteHello! I have been reading your posts here and am curious as to what you believe about God. Could you tell me about your faith and beliefs?
I don't think it's loving to treat an adult fellow citizen peacefully strolling on the sidewalk as a child about to get run over by an 18-wheeler.
ReplyDeleteIf any of you are under the false understanding that Jesus never said anything against homosexuality please take heed.
ReplyDeleteJesus told His disciples and others that He only does as His Father in heaven does. This is Jesus speaking as 100%man and 100% God. Do you get that??
Why would He have to say anything about homosexcuality when He has already said it in Leviticus???
Go to Matthew 19 and read what Jesus says there. does He not reiterate what was said in the creation?? Why was the creation of human beings thus??? FOR THIS REASON....Man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and the two shall come together and become one flesh.
This is the sum and total of it my friends. Just as we leave all to come to Christ, the becomming one body, being wed to Christ, the Bride of Christ. How dare anyone tamper with that. This is God's plan you are monkeying with when you demand to pervert it with homosexuality.
No man has the right to mess with what God has put together. That goes for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. Let us get this straight, to coin a phrase, God will not be mocked.
We are nothing before a Holy God and yet God sent His Son to die for us maggots. Does that not blow your mind??? How in heaven can any of us be so bold as to think we deserve less than hell for putting Jesus to death with our sins???
Stephen Bennett and Christine and many others myself included have lain our lives on the line to tell you the truth. Yes, our lives. In this day and age there are people out here who would desire to kill people like us for daring to stand firm for Christ.
Homosexuality is against God, change all the laws you want but it will not change God. How do you or I appease a Holy God? We confess sin and come to Him on bended knee asking His forgiveness and accepting His Son.
There are some ministers out here who will poo poo the bible and try to change it to meet their ideas of who God is and what He meant but let me assure you of this. They are in grave danger by tickling the ears of the sinner who wants to keep his/her sin.
I love this:
ReplyDelete"People feel compelled to destroy the Word of God. They do not feel the same impetus to destroy Hinduism, Buddism or many others.
It's because there is no truth, no power in those religions. In
order to justify their behavior, they must destroy truth. Other
religions have been targeted at times, but never like Judaism and
Christianity."
Your entire post back to Madgay is right on. They have chosen the right name because only someone who was "mad" could post what they posted. This person has tried to make us believe they are a believer but it is so obvious that they have been doped.
Canada has gone over to the homosexual side because of it's leadership and so they think that what they do is acceptable to everyone even God.
"Ex- gay ministries prey on the weak, the low self-esteemed, the depressed and the downtrodden homosexual like Hyena's going after the weakest gazelle on the serengetti." This is so sick and shows the blindness in Madgay. There is no such thing as a homosexual with low self esteem. If this were true they would cease being homosexuals because homosexuality is a self gratifying behavior with no consideration for anyone else. All the time taking the partner to hell with them. Nature's way of thinning the herd has nothing to do with the subject matter. The demand to do whatever they so desire to do and not have to answer for it does not come out to be depressed and downtrodden.
Thomas:
ReplyDeleteBut it's alright for homosexuals to impose their sick sex on our children right???
You and your bologna about how Christians impose their beliefs on you. This is an old one Thomas and holds no water at all.
You are free to believe or disbelieve all you want but you have no right to infringe on marriage which was ordained by the Christian God and you have no right to tell my child that this behavior is acceptable when it is not. Do you think yourself to live on this planet alone??? How is it that homosexuals can belly ache about tolerance and yet have none for Christianity?? How is it you homosexuals think it's right to go into schools and teach about sex between two men or two women?? In doing that you impose your behavior on little kids.
Thomas:
ReplyDelete"However, you want to ban my sort from public life, invalidating my hopes of a marriage. I've got to stand up to that sort of thing."
No one has said they want to ban your kind from public life. And, no one has done anything to your hope of marriage, we just do not want your kind trampling on God's ordination of marriage between one man and one woman. You can still marry, one woman.
Crackerillo:
ReplyDelete" I don't think it's loving to treat an adult fellow citizen peacefully strolling on the sidewalk as a child about to get run over by an 18-wheeler."
I think you have managed to put your comma in the wrong place. This is not about treating an adult like a child. It's about keeping a person from walking right into the deadliest horror there is. Don't tell me that you would not be thankful if Stephen were to see a tractor trailer coming and push you out of it's path. If you were not thankful you are mental.