The following article is one of the best that I have read regarding how we, as born-again Christians in Christ, should react and respond to the message of the movie, "Brokeback Mountain" upon our culture.
It was written by Andrew Comiskey of Desert Stream Ministries in response to the countless articles and editorials that have already been written in various newspapers and magazines.
It is no secret that many of the articles included lashing out by those who harbor anger and frustration because of their secular humanistic opinions and beliefs that Christianity should be blamed for perpetuating the current culture war that is going on against the virulent homosexual activist agenda.
This article is an exceptional, Biblical response to those who would attempt to blame Christians, their faith in Jesus and the inerrancy of God's Word as a negative influence towards homosexuality in our culture today.
Christine
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Brokeback Mountain: A Christian Response*
By Andrew Comiskey
Over the past few months there have been countless articles and editorials about the impact of the message of Brokeback Mountain upon our culture. Most see the film as a story of true love (the two male friends) that society is unwilling to accept. The two men are seen as victims. Although not a part of the film, many editorials blame Christianity for perpetrating a judgmental, narrow, intolerant attitude towards homosexuality.
Andy has seen these editorials as a chance to respond in a loving, truthful way towards the false beliefs many have about homoseuality and Christianity. I hope that sharing his responses to a few of the editorials will help deepen your own response.
In response to a Kansas City Star faith editorial by Vern Barnet on the sacredness of same-sex relationships, Dec. 28, 2005:
"In framing an ultimately tragic gay romance as 'sacred,' Barnet fails on several key points.
First, using his own definition of sacred - 'the source of ultimate meaning' - we must gauge sexual relationships by their ultimate meaning: the conceiving of children. Erotic same-sex unions cannot achieve this sacred end.
Secondly, he skews the Judeo-Christian tradition when he states that religion has limited homosexual behavior due to the cultural need for population growth. In truth, Christianity prohibits homosexuality because of the faith's high view of humanity. Monogamy protects the best interests of all involved; the biblical mandate to reserve sexual activity for marriage alone is especially empowering to women who historically have been subject to the injustices of male infidelity, both heterosexually and homosexually.
Ennis and Jack (the homosexual characters of Brokeback Mountain) had wives whose lives were shattered by their 'sacred' gay romance. The men themselves were shattered by their romance. Still Barnet insists that the problem lies within the culture that demonizes them. Could it be that the problem lies within the misinterpretation of their same-sex attraction? The longings of Ennis and Jack are not fulfilled in homo-eroticism. These cowboys are lost souls who need solid masculine friendship, not sex.
Making their romance 'sacred' is the problem. What demonizes them (and their wives) in today's culture are naive advocates like Barnet who bless what is broken, who call good evil, and evil good."
A response to a CA youth pastor's take on Brokeback Mountain, printed in Relevant Magazine, a conservative Christian periodical(?!)
"In his naive review of Brokeback Mountain, Pastor Seely buys the lie that the film's eloquent take on relational and moral chaos somehow redeems that chaos. He claims that Jesus is in the film because Jesus feels deeply for broken people. But deep feelings don't restore lives. And the mangling of lives that result from the homosexual affair at the core of the film is what troubled me most about it.
Seely points out how Brokeback Mountain conveys well the struggle for security and clarity we all experience in our relationships, especially men.
But these men fail tragically to recognize the difference between a profound need for friendship and romantic compulsion; both men also fail to take responsibility for how selfish and destructive that eroticism is, especially as it is vistied upon their wives and children.
Seely rightly cites how the film evokes many passionate feelings; it will inevitably awaken perverse romantic desire in many young adults who are already vulnerable to eroticizing their need for same-sex love. God is not in the awakening; it is born of His enemy, and the enemy of humanity.
We as Christians do a disservice to one another in merely offering empathic feelings to those bound by brokenness. God shows up when we become His agents in helping to redeem that brokenness. In this, Brokeback Mountain is no help at all. It merely conveys the power of frustrated desire and its fulfillment, with an eloquence that will prove seductive to the unaware."
In response to a February New Yourk Times editorial in an op-ed by Dan Savage criticizing the ex-gay movement:
"I asked my four children, ranging from ages 16-24, to comment on Savage's op-ed piece on the ex-gay movement. These four grew up among men like their father who determined through the grace of God to transition out of homosexuality and into heterosexual relationships. (I am one of the founders and leaders of the ex-gay movement in the USA.)
These four also grew up in a gay-friendly culture increasingly hostile to anyone who challenges the belief that the only happy homosexual is an active one.
As the pretty good result of heterosexual monogamy (and the ex-gay movement), my kids rolled their eyes at Savage's claim that ex-gays, if they exist at all, are doomed to self-deception and divorce.
My eldest commented that Savage may be threatened by the prospect that men like his father actually exist. I think he is right. Why else would he try so hard to make me an imaginary creature, a figment of the evangelical imagination? Strange justice for one committed to his own sexual happiness. Why can't he grant me mine?"
May these letters help you respond with the true mercy, grace and freedom offered by Christ and His church.
Desert Stream Ministries
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32
*Posted with permission from Desert Stream Ministries Spring, 2006 Newsletter. It is requested that no part of this newletter/report be reproduced or reprimed without permission from Desert Stream Ministries.
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Added 3/16/03 - Please see La Shawn Barber's Corner post about Homosexuals Arrested at Liberty University. Her site includes many links to some excellent articles on the subject of the current cultural clash between homosexual activists and Bible-based Christianity.
Also, do not miss her guest blogging gig at Beliefnet where she shares much wisdom concerning religion, culture, and politics with her accurate and hard-hitting commentaries appropriately titled Superficial Spirituality is 'In'
Hi Christine,
ReplyDeleteIn reading this article, what I see is a misunderstanding of gay people more than anything else. Having someone that is straight refer to gay attractions as a misguided need for male friendship. It just seems to me that the "advice" or theory comes from someone who thinks he knows what it is to be attracted to the same sex but isn't and never has been.
What would your feelings be if someone told you your attractions towards your husband were simply misguided desires at friendship with him? Would the argument sound the least bit hollow or hard to swallow?
I think/hope the article was really written in the name of Christian love rather than condemnation, but I hope at somepoint the author or readers will realize that staying on the outside to tell gay people what they feel will make the bridge pretty hard to gap.
Hi brady,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to my blog and thanks for taking the time to read the article.
The author of the article (Andrew Comiskey) is ex-gay, now married with 4 children. You can read his testimony here. I am sorry that I can't respond to your entire post right now. I have a puggle puppy to tend to! That's a pug and beagle mix. Today, I heard on the news that a puggle was stolen from a pet store! How sad for someone to do such a thing...
Anyway, when I have more time I will respond to the rest of your post. Just wanted to let you know about Andrew and where to read more about him.
I too will be interested in your attempt to put yourself in the shoes of a lesbian or gay man, and I wish you the best with the puppy.
ReplyDeleteI am always amazed at the look of horror on the face of someone who tells me that my sexuality is a choice, when I ask them if they could choose to be gay; if love and sex are something that can be changed as easily as changing a shirt or tie.
Is your faith a choice? Could you just as easily be a Buddhist or Hindu? Or is there something deep in your soul that points--for you--in one direction and one direction only?
I read Comisky book. Isn't he the guy who went from being gay to being straight to having a pornography addiction? I finished the book feeling very sorry for Mr. Comisky, but thinking he had more demons than a gargoyle factory, and that his experience has absolutely no relevance for me.
That's the problem I see with most of these gay-change folks. They define the problem in a way that takes it as far away from two people loving each other as they possibly can ("same-sex-attraction", "false images", etc.) and then try to argue it away.
But these aren't things you can argue, any more than I can argue you out of your Xian belief system. After all, when you were trolling for visitors over at ex-gay watch your method was to invoke the false choice: either secular humanist moral relativism or the God-given Christian moral absolutes as contained in God's Word, the Bible.
Clue. You don't get to decide the "correct" interpretation of the bible, nor do you get to recharacterize everything that doesn't fit your worldview as secular humanism.
Clue Two: You don't get to decide what gay people think and feel on the basis of the tortured writing of Comisky or Chambers or any of the litany of ex-gay folks who--upon close study--obviously have serious problems beyond just liking people their same sex.
Your models are wrong, and I don't know how to suggest that you gain perspective besides having sex with a woman. I suspect that you will find it to be unnatural and perhaps you'll gain some understanding of why what you're promoting is ridiculous on its face.
Or perhaps you could pray to your god and try and change that puggle into a cat.
I don't think I can add much to the eloquent words that have already been said. But heres a FEW of my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteMy best friend is a lesbian, I have SEEN how she is treated by so called Christian folk. I have also heard HORROR stories of MANY gay people through the years. From nasty hateful words being spewed at them to being BEATEN and Yes even raped. I do NOT see how ANYONE would "choose" to be gay. I can't see how any sane person could physically make a choice to be something that unfortunatly MANY people still view as vile.
I don't believe the crud about being ex gay. I think these purported ex gays have MANY psychological issues they need to deal with, starting with the fact that MANY have been brainwashed by conservative Christian views...
As far as what the bible says... Yes it does say that a man who lays with a man is a sinner, or some such rubbish, BUT it ONLY says that ONCE... It does however, say REPEATEDLY that the ONLY person who has the authority and the RIGHT to judge is God him/herself...
I will keep on fighting for equality... AMONG ALL people...
Love is LOVE
I also find it pretty sad that you can't find the time to answer anything any of the other responders has said... Seems that when confronted with good solid arguements, doggy needs your help... You should really pray/meditate etc on that, its VERY hypocritical
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteLadycelticfire,
ReplyDelete1. You think you know me, but the truth is that you don't know anything about me.
2. My life involves much more than the care of two dogs.
3. My son is a pitcher for a college baseball team. I travel 1 1/2 hrs. there and back to watch his team. Then I get the puppy at the sitters house. Just got home at 10 p.m.
4. I attend a Bible study each week and have prep work for that.
5. I run a household myself.
6. I assist my daughter in her acting career.
7. I have relatives who live at a distance and help them with problems via phone calls.
8. I have friends that get together for prayer, lunch etc.
10. I run a part-time in-home business that involves making deliveries.
11. Blogging is sometimes difficult to keep up with when my week is very busy.
12. This week has been extra busy.
13. Last but not least, I see that each person who has come over here (lately) to counter what is written is not coming here for conversation. They are usually here to just tell me how wrong I am (or my posts are).
I have heard many of these arguments before and find them fruitless.
When someone is not interested in talking about Jesus Christ, the Bible and/or salvation, they are usually here just to bash. It is then that I make a judgment that it might be best just to let them have their say (as long as they don't take the name of the Lord in vain or blaspheme God; something I refuse to allow at this blog) rather than answer.
We saw the results that my additional post to Boo brought. Just more of the same ole' stale arguments.
I'm not here for fruitless debate. It's a waste of time.
I could respond to your hateful comment:
Ladycelticfire said, "I don't believe the crud about being ex gay. I think these purported ex gays have MANY psychological issues they need to deal with, starting with the fact that MANY have been brainwashed by conservative Christian views..."
I could respond to your uninformed comment:
Ladycelticfire said, "As far as what the bible says... Yes it does say that a man who lays with a man is a sinner, or some such rubbish, BUT it ONLY says that ONCE... It does however, say REPEATEDLY that the ONLY person who has the authority and the RIGHT to judge is God him/herself..."
...And share Bible verses that tell us to warn people of the coming judgment. But what good would that do? Since the Bible (in your view) only says one time that a man laying with another man is sin (you're incorrect, btw...it says this in many verses) does that mean that it isn't important and doesn't need to be heeded or obeyed?
...But I doubt that anything I would say would change your opinion. A mind cemented in propaganda generally is difficult to chip away at.
I do bring up this volatile subject about homosexualityfor a greater purpose than what you perceive my reasons to be.
I want people to be aware of what God says on the subject.
Reading and learning the Bible believing/following Christian and ex-gay perspective(s) on homosexuality is virtually a guarantee for attack by opponents. However, it is something that is sorely lacking in public discourse on the topic. God wants us to preach the gospel to all...not just those we can pleasantly share it with.
Jesus told us, "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"
All the scientific arguments/debates; change of humanistic laws; and gains of "rights" (the worldly things Jesus speaks of) cannot compare to the greatness of knowing Jesus Christ our Lord!
All of the "worldly" things (including sexual lust) will fall to dust and blow away one day.
God's Word tells us the value of our souls and how to be reconciled back to God through Christ.
His Word stands for all eternity.
The choice is yours.
Where you and everyone else will spend eternity is determined by how you answer Jesus' question:
"Who do you say that I am?"
PBC:
ReplyDeleteIt is not about choosing to be homosexual. It's about choosing to stay that way when God has made it clear that it is sin.
It is also alright to love someone of the same sex, it is not alright to have sex with them. There is healthy love and unhealthy "love", love that has gone too far.
" changed as easily as changing a shirt or tie". No one ever said this was true. In fact without Christ and the Holy Spirit it would be next to impossible.
"Is your faith a choice? Could you just as easily be a Buddhist or Hindu? Or is there something deep in your soul that points--for you--in one direction and one direction only"?
When you know the truth it will set you free. No one who has truly known Jesus Christ could ever go to the occult. Truth points us in the correct direction. You can never know that direction until you give your life to Him.
Let me assure you of one thing very vital here. Even in the accepting the free gift of Christ it will not usually make change easy. Believe me, Comisky had the porn addiction long before he got married. That is one of the earmarks of homosexuality. What happened to him is this. Though he no longer had a draw toward other men, there was this little fly in the ointment that had not been dealt with.
What I see here in you questions is a person who thinks or wants everything to be instantaneous. No one who ever had an addiction of any sort especially in the sexual realm, ever got healed totally and instantly. The addiction is too ingrained and takes much work.
I have been delivered from being over twentyfive years a lesbian so I do know what I am speaking of.
If God so desires to instantly deliver someone from homosexuality He can and will but it is in His court not yours or mine.
Oh, Comisky's life is very relevant to you because you have been in the behavior so long you too are hooked, addicted. You are as filled with denial as any drunk walking around out here. You will not freely admit to a broken family, sexual abuse as a child or anything that would shed light on why you are where you are. You do not fool those of us who have been there PBC.
God's word is not up for interpretation by those who are not filled with the Holy Spirit.
2PE 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
The Spirit of God gave various gifts to people in the Old Testament. The most frequently mentioned gift was the gift of prophecy. See notes on Num 11:25-29; Eze 8:3; Dan 4:9. The Spirit is so closely associated with prophecy that Peter could write that prophecy came through men who were moved by the Spirit (2Pe 1:21).
If you are not born again you are not filled with the Spirit and that goes for any man or woman who practices that which is an abomination to God.
Salt
Lisa:
ReplyDeleteJesus said nothing about a lot of things that doesn't make them correct. Jesus is God and what God has said Jesus need not repeat unless He so desires.
You said:
"You are aware, of course, that there are many ex-ex-gays, right? And you're also aware that many of the alleged "ex-gays" have publicly taken a "fall off the wagon" so to speak?"
Drunks do that all the time do you think they were born with a drink in their hands??
People go back to their sins many times in life. This is especially true of sexual sins.
Scientists are constantly grabbing at straws to disprove God and what He has said but, let me assure you, there is no validity in homosexuality, God is not a liar. It is a perversion of what God intended otherwise why did He not give Adam another male?? God never introduced homosexuals as a norm.
To everyone who thinks homosexuality is natural:
ReplyDeleteThis is a perversion of what God planned and set in place. The bible is rife with comments that clearly teach this fact. I feel great sorrow for those of you here who have bought into the lie.
Satan has decieved you and will have you as company in the lake of fire one day should you remain this way. This is not what any of us want for you. We do love you and our hearts break to see how you have fallen into the enemy's hands.
You may call yourself a car because you live in a garage, as you may call yourself Christian because you go to church. This does not make you one. God has made it very clear, turning from His ordained ways will not get you into His kingdom. Please read your bible and pray for His mercy.
Ladycelticfire:
ReplyDeleteNone of us here would deny that there are those in Christian circles who have a streak of legalism and discrimination in them.
"I do NOT see how ANYONE would "choose" to be gay. I can't see how any sane person could physically make a choice to be something that unfortunatly MANY people still view as vile".
It is evident that you don't get it either. No one chose to be homosexual, they choose to stay there because they are addicted to perverse sex.
"
I don't believe the crud about being ex gay. I think these purported ex gays have MANY psychological issues they need to deal with, starting with the fact that MANY have been brainwashed by conservative Christian views..."
You are intitled to you ignorance. I happen to be one of these who you do not believe but let me ask you this;
How would you know the difference before the person changes?????? You may fall in love with on who someday will accept Christ as their Savior and then not want you any longer. Won't you feel like a fool? You believed they loved you yet here they have changed. Ask my ex lover if she had any doubt that I was lesbian as I bent to begin the sex acts so many times with her.
I am afraid you have also bought the lie.
Ladycelticfire:
ReplyDeleteIt gets tiresome answering the same "crud" that the homoexgays put across over and over again.
You are wrong about how often the bible tells that homosexuality is sin. go read yours again if you have such. Try...1CO 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Also, Believers are in some way to participate in judging the world. Because of spiritual union with Christ, to whom God has committed all judgment, believers share His work with Him. See note on Joh 5:21-24. Furthermore, there is to be participation in judging angels. Most likely the reference is to disobedient angels, such as are mentioned in Jud 1:6. Compare 2Pe 2:4. Amillennialists, post-millennialists, and historical premillennialists generally interpret this judging to come about through the power of Christlike living, which will judge and convict evil. Dispensational premillennialists generally believe the reference applies to the end time in various ways.
How about Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
If this is not clear then you are more than a little blind. What is the "natural relations" that is spoken of here???? What is the perversion?????
Regan writes:
ReplyDeleteOthers who believe as Christine does answer one or both of two ways.
1. with a sermon. (whatever that means)
2. 'I'm very busy, so you're lucky I have time for you.'(Well I am not too busy. So here goes.)
"If we all lived the way you thought we should Christine, frankly-I'd be so bored that if I didn't die from that boredom, I'd consider suicide".
Actually many who live as you do do commit suicide and blame it on Christians who speak the biblical truth. Truth is that they have contracted diseases or have met with much heartbreak in this sin.
We who live for Christ are not at all bored. He is exciting and the idea that He loved me enough even in my sin to die for me is so wonderful that I cannot be bored.
"I think you're just too small and unable to get your head around anything else that isn't in your comfort zone." This is just plain stupid and not worthy of comment.
"American Christians are the most comfortable of all.
There is no risk, no sacrifice being made." The time is comming and even as we speak has arrived, that we will have to sacrifice much due to your hatred and the hatred of others like you.
"But you just love sitting back and letting gay and lesbian children's lives get poisoned and threatened by prejudice."
This is way out of order and no wonder no one wants to answer you.
"It's irrational, unjustified prejudice." I want to be there as you tell God Almighty this one.
"What gay child would still be alive? What family still whole but not for homophobia, couched in dogma?"
There never was nor will there ever be a 'gay child'. There is sin.
"There is a difference between treating someone AS inferior, and them actually being so". You are sick Regan. Not one of us have called you or any homosexual, 'inferior'.
"We as a nation and society know there are no DNA differences between black and white, we are the SAME race.
We know there is no DNA difference between heterosexual and homosexual.
There is no DNA that shows pathology or ability". So is there DNA to point out a murderer, or thief??? All human beings are the same, but, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. How is it that you cannot get it through your head?? You come off as thinking you are intelligent but the simplest things seem to go right by you.
Thank you, Saltnlight, for sharing such powerful messages and replies here. God's Word is more powerful than any two-edged sword or any words that man could ever come up with against Scripture. The knowledge of man is no contest against the wisdom and knowledge of God!
ReplyDeleteThank you for your faithfulness and willingness to stand up for Jesus in this broken and dying world! Thank you for continuing to show lost souls their need for repentance from sin and the mercy and saving grace of Jesus Christ! You are planting many seeds of the gospel out there in cyberspace and the Lord will reap and sow!
Love & In Christ,
Christine
saltnlight:
ReplyDeleteI was not really looking for a sermon, or for you to compare me with an alcoholic. Its interesting that Christine's response to LadyCelticFire was an outraged:
1. You think you know me, but the truth is that you don't know anything about me.
Yet when you did the same thing to me, she praised you for sharing powerful messages and replies. Neither she, nor you, directly addressed my questions. You just made a bunch of assumptions, most of which were wrong.
Your view of homosexuality and my view of it are vastly different. I probably wouldn't be happy with yours, and to that extent its good you found a way to leave it, if you in fact have done so. I'll believe your words, but I've believed others before who have either come out all over again, or been caught in a lie.
Your view of religion, of the bible, and of christianity are different from mine as well. But I have the right to interpret it for myself, and thankfully I don't need your permission to do so.
The only thing "broken" about my family was that they were too conservative and too christian to accept me for who I was until much later in their life. But time is a great teacher, and they gave me the tools to understand.
I do know the truth, and it has set me free.
pbcliberal stated, "I am always amazed at the look of horror on the face of someone who tells me that my sexuality is a choice, when I ask them if they could choose to be gay; if love and sex are something that can be changed as easily as changing a shirt or tie."
ReplyDeleteYou may perceive yourself as not having the choice of being attracted to the same sex, but you do have the choice on whether or not to act on the urges.
No one said that change was easy. I have heard the stories of several ex-gay friends who have shared that it took time effort, but most of all, the saving grace and mercy of Jesus Christ for their release from the bondage (their words, not mine) of homosexual behavior, attraction, and identity.
pbcliberal stated, "Is your faith a choice?"
Yes.
pbcliberal, "Could you just as easily be a Buddhist or Hindu? "
I could have, if I didn't accept Jesus' invitation to be born again.
pbcliberal: "Or is there something deep in your soul that points--for you--in one direction and one direction only?"
Now that the Holy Spirit indwells my heart, I am sealed in the Spirit. This means several important things have happened. You can go to this page for a more thorough explanation.
Andrew Comiskey is free from his former porn addiction problem, as well as his former homosexual behavior.
As far as your other accusations are concerned:
1. No. I was not "trolling for visitors" over at ex-gay watch. I just got sick and tired of the people over there mocking my friend Stephen and calling him a liar. When I read that blog's stated purpose for existence, they certainly didn't match. Most of what I've read over there only criticizes ex-gay people and ministries. So, under the guise of "watching ex-gays" what is happening over there is actually the overt practice of disparaging them continually. For a group of gay people who profess the mantra of tolerance, tolerance for ex-gays (and their Christian brothers and sisters who support them) appears to be non-existent over there.
2. pbcliberal: "You don't get to decide the "correct" interpretation of the bible, nor do you get to recharacterize everything that doesn't fit your worldview as secular humanism."
Neither do you get to interpret the Bible. Ever hear of exegesis, hermeneutics, and Scripture interprets Scripture?
One thing I know for certain. The Bible is absolutely clear about the sinfulness of homosexual behavior. The twisting and contortions of the modern liberal Christian "scholars" cannot change what has been established for over 2,000 years; no matter how they attempt to do so.
3. I noticed that you didn't like Saltnlight's "lecture" reply, but since you brought the subject up I feel entitled to answer your allegations that it was I who attempts to interpret Scripture in my own way. Not true, as you will see when you read the link and post below.
I recently read two interesting accounts regarding the question of whether or not Jesus ever said anything about same sex behavior.
You can read one here and since I couldn't locate the link, I have reposted the second one here in this comment section.
"Christ did say that God created people “in the beginning” as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as “one flesh.” (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9) Nothing is said about any other type of union.
When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Jewish law. He told the woman caught in adultery to “Go and sin no more.” (John 8:11) He warned people not only that the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts. (Matthew 5:28) And he shamed the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband.
Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God’s wrath ( Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11,Luke 10:12, and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets clearly described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality. (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.
Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, which was revealed in Matthew 16:13- 20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9: 18-21,John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning (John 1: 1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere). So, Jesus was part of the Godhead as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:18 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul’s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter’s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John’s in Revelation 22:15.
So--the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,” they reveal that they really haven’t understood Scripture, or Who Christ is. Maybe some of these points can help them toward a clearer understanding.
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I am including two responses to this post that make the point even clearer.
Post ID: 709 Posted by: pool6x, 2005-09-17 02:13:00
This was an excellent reply based upon the truth of the Bible. Christ is God, the Holy Spirit (God also) inspired the Bible's writing, So when God declared homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament, it was in fact Christ (God) who was the one declaring that. So, Christ did say a lot about homosexuality...everytime God says it in the Bible, Christ (part of the Godhead) is dittoing it.
Post ID: 716 Posted by: nitsuard, 2005-09-19 01:44:26
Excellent indeed! But I had a bad link to the original article and hope to read it b4 continuing my comments except to say that John 1 explains that Christ was GOD in the flesh and was the Creator who made everything, including every word written by man to be included in the Bible."
Your comment, "But I have the right to interpret it for myself," establishes quite well where God's infallible Word, and His perfect wisdom and knowledge stand in relation to your own thoughts, words and deeds.
The rest of your comment was total sarcasm and one of the reasons why I didn't reply to your comment in the first place. But for the sake of others who may come here to read, I decided to counter your false allegations.
I will leave you with Bible verses that double as a prayer for wisdom:
Prayer for Spiritual Wisdom
15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
18 the eyes of your *understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Just a couple of quick points:
ReplyDelete[Christine] Neither do you get to interpret the Bible. Ever hear of exegesis, hermeneutics, and Scripture interprets Scripture?
Exegesis is from the Greek ex Eg Esis, literally "to lead out." It is literally a synonym for "interpret." You might have been better off asking if I knew what "eisegesis" was. If you did, we could then hurl the term at each other.
Hermeneutics is the basis of the interpretation. I'd guess that you're of the literal school. I'm of the allegorical.
And I'd be real careful in quoting the newer translations to people who probably have KJV on their shelves. Its somewhat disconcerting to find out how different the translations are, and can play havoc with people who believe in the inerrancy of the bible when read by modern english speakers.
A couple of other inconsistancies in your response: I asked if you could have been a Buddhist or a Hindu. You said yes, then you said no.
Now that the Holy Spirit indwells my heart, I am sealed in the Spirit.
I understand that totally. When I came to understand who I was deep in my soul, the world started to make sense to me.
So when I see you saying I can't interpret the scripture, then ask me if I know what the technical terminology for scriptural interpretations are, and finish it all off with a whole bunch of other people interpreting the scripture (and not very well), I've got to admire those big cojones of yours.
I'm sorry if you think I'm sarcastic. I am. I didn't like saltnlight's "lecture" reply because it was making assumptions about me based totally upon the outcome she wanted. I especially liked saltnlights's response to another poster: "I want to be there as you tell God Almighty this one."
The gall.