Stephen W. Has Left This Blog?

I met Stephen W. over at the Garden Guy website (which is another story in itself). He seemed willing to discuss our differences over what the Bible has to say about homosexual behavior. Our conversations started out nice and respectful (which is sometimes very difficult to do in the blogosphere when two worldviews on this topic clash), but I always had the feeling in the back of my mind that one day he might just end up storming out of here.

Why?

Because I tend to ask the difficult questions on this issue. I have had several of these kinds of debates with advocates of the gay-Christian movement and ideology, but have (unfortunately) found that most will not listen to any reasonable, Biblical arguments that negate what they tend to profess.

In a former thread on this blog, Stephen W. said the following:

Christine, as I have said before, I think you need to read more about this homosexuality in the Bible business before making sweeping statements as you do.

I recommended "What the Bible Really says about Homosexuality". Without reading that, you really can't discuss this sensibly. Many of us believe that there are homosexual relationships (or, at least, sacred covenant relationships between same-sex partners) that are endorsed by God in the Bible (both old and new testaments).

Also, just as you take liberties with your interpretation of Paul's words to refer to a specific group of women performing specific acts at a specific time (not all Biblical scholars agree with you there), we make the same claims with Paul's words elsewhere. We believe the homosexual behaviour he is talking about (and the homosexual behaviour spoken about in the old testament) is behaviour specifically related to temple prostitution, which amounts to idolatry.

Please read that book.

If you don't feel like it, then I guess this link will have to do. It's woefully out of date and doesn't go into enough depth on Romans, but it's good enough for now.

I hope to write my own "gay apologetics" essay, in much the same style as your "women apologetics" essay. But that will take me a while. :)

After I read that, I thought to myself, he's not going to like my reply. I knew that the cordial niceties would have to end in order to speak the truth on this matter.

My reply:

I do not need to read that book. In some form or another (i.e. online, in books, at seminars etc.) I have probably read or heard the pro-gay arguments that liberal theologians have created in order to justify homosexual behavior.

A common example is the misrepresentation of the brotherly love and friendship that David and Jonathan had despite the fact that Saul wanted David killed. What those verses have represented for thousands of years have only recently been twisted into saying something different.

This is just one example of liberal ideologists turning the Word of God and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent, into their own image rather than humbly submitting, repenting, and reflecting the true image and likeness of Jesus Christ as born again believers.

In another thread, I noticed that you wanted to write a "gay apologetics" essay. Sorry Stephen. There is nothing to support such an idea in Scripture...absolutely nothing!

You have been duped into believing a heaping cauldron of lies, instigated long ago by the enemy of our souls and, unfortuately, currently being used by false teachers that have infiltrated some denominations of the Christian churches.

I know that this is very difficult for you to accept and face since you are "happy" in your current beliefs. But realize one extremely important fact.

God doesn't call for us to be happy...but to be holy! Jesus reiterates this when he said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Christ's death on the cross saves us from the punishment for our sins. By keeping his commandments, we are showing Him day by day that we love Him! His plea for us to keep the commandments doesn't save us, but He is telling us the importance of sanctification and striving for holiness in our lives!

But one of the most awesome things that I have realized since I dumped those sins that used to keep me in bondage is that I am happier now than I ever was while wallowing in rebellion towards God through those former sins! I have met countless Christians who have said the same thing. The sinful acts that used to give them (and me) pleasure...for a season...are now worthless and repulsive to them! Isn't that amazing how Jesus Christ can change the heart of a person from the inside (Holy Spirit) to the outside (leaving former life of sin)?

My friend Stephen B. (the other Stephen who posts on this blog) knows all about this. You would do well to seek his help in your same-sex attraction struggle. I love the verse that he often quotes:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Stephen B. is a living example of that verse. Many people are. I pray that you will find it in your heart to seek the truth just as Stephen B. did.

God bless,
Christine

P.S. It is my hope and prayer that you will study the Scriptures more diligently to seek the truth for yourself. I realize that you will not take my word for it and you probably shouldn't. But seek out the Scriptures, on their own without any gay-behavior affirming propaganda and you will find the truth and the truth will set you free.

We are urged not to be led away from God's honest truth. The book of Jude warns us of this very thing that you are currently believing and following within the gay-behavior-affirming church.

For more on this issue, Al Mohler has a great article at his blog which describes the dangers of veering away from Scriptural truth through theological liberalism.

I knew that he would probably respond in anger to my post. But I also felt that it was time to share the truth of the Bible when he stated that he was going to post a "gay apologetic" essay to somehow prove his opinion here. I didn't think that he would choose to cease posting altogether, but that appears to be the choice that he has made.

Therefore, I am posting some final comments here. These are comments that I once shared with a blogger named Deb. But they apply just as well to the conversation between Stephen W. and I.

Here's what I shared with Deb (including some slight variations for the purpose of replying to Stephen W.) :

Yes. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, when we are born again, we are to pursue holiness. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Jesus was speaking about Christian believers. This was not said in a way to mean that "keeping the commandments" will result in salvation. Nor, does it mean that not "keeping the commandments" will result in loss of salvation. I am a believer in "once saved, always saved." The Bible reiterates that message in many passages.

However, where we have parted company in the past is in the fact that condemnation for homosexual behavior on those who have not been born again in Christ Jesus remains. Teaching that there is no need to confess that homosexual behavior is sin means that the person who may think they are saved may not, in fact, be saved.

Why?

Because they are not repenting of a behavior that is condemned as sin in the Bible.

If someone refused to confess and repent of murder, would you consider them born again in Christ? Of course not. If that person does not view his/her particular sinful act as wrong, he/she will see no need to confess it to God.

Yes. Heterosexual Christians sin and (unfortunately) often do the things that you ( [she], meaning Deb) stated in your [her] blogpost. If they continue in willful disobedience (often called backsliding) and purposely desire to ignore Christ's admonition that "if you love me, keep my commandments," then for the born-again Christian believer, it will mean a loss of rewards at the Judgment seat of Christ.

However, for the non-believer, the situation is dire. They will not have the grace, mercy and forgiveness afforded by Christ at the cross for their sin and will die with their own sins on their souls. They will face an eternity separated from God and suffer condemnation for those sins at the Great White Throne Judgment.

There is quite a lot of difference between a backsliding Christian believer and one who willfully refuses to repent of one's sin(s)...whatever such sin(s)they may be.

Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery. He shamed those who were ready to stone her by pointing out "let he who is without sin cast the first stone at her. He was pointing out the fact that they needed to repent of their own sins. However, he didn't condone the adulterous woman's sin either. He told her, specifically, "Go and leave your life of sin."

During Christ's ministry on earth up to this present time, we are in the midst of the grace and mercy era. It wasn't time for Christ to extend judgment. That event will happen at his second coming. However, as believers we belong to him and we are to live righteously and godly in this age.

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


Tts 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

It is easy to think that Mark [another Christian blogger at Deb's site] and I are trying to hurt you and all homosexual people. But that isn't the case with me and, although I can't speak for him, as my brother in Christ, I don't see that as being the case with Mark, either. But this is, unfortunately, how non-Christians often view biblically based evangelicals who are trying to share the gospel.

As evidenced here at your blog, they may be drawn to God (which is a good thing, of course!) through all that is shared about the good news of mercy, grace and love, but they want to skip over the bad news of our woeful state of sin and the need for repentance part. But that is what the cross of Christ is about. It is about both.

At this point, I feel that it is vitally important for me to say that I am not claiming that Stephen W. [or Deb] are not saved. That is between God and them. Only God knows for sure. We can get a glimpse by noting, "by their fruits you shall know them." But even then, only God has that 100% knowledge about where each person will spend eternity...through the salvation offered through His Son, Jesus Christ, or into the eternal state of separation from God forever.

I do want to point out that although people may be saved, if they are guilty of spreading false doctrine, or any type of heresies, they may be leading others away from the true gospel of salvation. That is the danger! As I had stated before:

If they (meaning saved believers) continue in willful disobedience (often called backsliding) and purposely desire to ignore Christ's admonition that "if you love me, keep my commandments," then for the born-again Christian believer, it will mean a loss of rewards at the Judgment seat of Christ.

However, for the non-believer, the situation is dire. They will not have the grace, mercy and forgiveness afforded by Christ at the cross for their sin and will die with their own sins on their souls. They will face an eternity separated from God and suffer condemnation for those sins at the White Throne Judgment.

Because I often strive to end my blogposts on a positive note, I wanted to share that what Satan often tries to do to divide us, can be turned around and used for our redemption!

Stephen W. will probably continue to disagree with me on the "gay-behavior-affirming" Christian issue. However, we do have the gospel of Christ in common, and on that we can rest and go in peace as we go our separate ways.

I have often said that, "teaching and sharing Jesus Christ and Him crucified," as Paul tells us in I Corinthians, is the uniting force between divided denominations. It is for that reason that I continually remind people of this fact.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

In the past, I have posted the following deep, theological comment. I have found that most people don't even want to touch it with an answer. Anyone here have the courage to do so? I hope you will!


In a commentary that I read years ago. I personally found the following thoughts to be quite startling. Christian believers, I wonder what each of you might think of it?


Here it is:

Remember when satan tempted Jesus in the desert and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, turn these stones into bread."

The lecturer then said, "I always wondered why Jesus didn't just go ahead and turn satan into a loaf of bread!"

If a good God allows satan to exist, then He can bring a greater good out of his existence than his non-existence.

Charles Williams says, "satan is a son of mystery and since God suffers him to be, he too is God's minister and labors for some good by us not understood."

I thought that was a deep and profound insight! What do you think?

Taking that idea a step further, we see that God took the most heinous act in human history...the crucifixion of His Son, and turned it on itself...making it the greatest demonstration of His love and grace to us.

Satan's initial, perceived "victory" turned into an eternal crushing defeat! Christ's victorious defeat of satan's affects on sin, evil and death were forever destroyed. Every soul who comes to Christ enjoys that victory with Him!

*******

Update at 10:51 a.m.

It appears that Stephen W. deleted his comment that said he was leaving!

Hope reigns eternal!

Psa 31:24 Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD.

Col 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Col 1:6
Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth: