Mel White: "Don't Discuss the Bible"
Excerpt:
James (Mel) White’s remarks appear to point to a rather severe case of truthphobia. Perhaps he fears that what happened to this woman and this man will happen to him, if he hears the truth. The Apostle Paul was on point when he said in 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (NIV):
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
HT: GCMWatch
There is a name for this reprobate theology: TRUTHPHOBIA! (credit for term - GCMWatch)
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Some additional thoughts:
I am currently reading an excellent book written by Greg Laurie called, "The Great Compromise."
Although it was written back in 1994, it is almost prophetic regarding the current gay christian movement compromise in the chapter called, "What's Your Golden Calf?"
In the section labeled, "A few modern idols", Greg writes:
Idols can be lots of things. Let's list a few things that qualify as idols.
1. Other people
While the Israelites' second idol took the form of a golden calf, their first idol - believe it or not - was Moses. To the Israelites, their godly leader - a man known for his upright lifestyle and personal integrity - was an icon. By his godly and uncompromising lifestyle he was able, apparently, to single-handedly keep two to three million people from turning to idolatry. But the minute he was out of the picture, they flocked to it. (bold mine)
The minute Moses went up to the mountain, the Israelites started looking for a loophole. Essentially, what they were saying was: "Look, Moses was a great guy, and we really respect him as a man of integrity and godliness. But he's just a little too spiritual for us. We can't live that way. In fact, we don't want to live that way. What we need is an easy religion that will fit our lifestyle. We've decided to lower our standards a bit. We need a god we can touch - one who appeals to the senses." (bold mine)
There are many people today who are able to stand strong when they're around other Christians. But when you get them off by themselves, they quickly blend into the woodwork. They begin to lower their standards. And before you know it, they've fallen victim to compromise. Aaron was put to such a test, and he failed miserably. Had he been able to stand strong for the Lord, he might have turned the people back from their idolatry. Instead, he helped them toward it.
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13 comments:
See, Christine, this is my problem with all of these posts... It was absolutely possible for you to post this without also saying anything about Deb or anyone else specifically. The more we say things like "See?! I'm right and you're wrong and I can prove it!" the more we drive people away from not only us, but from our religious beliefs. If you're really burdened by something, then share it without also lashing out at someone. While you might mean it with love and good intentions, I can certainly see where it could come across as angry and aggressive.
Witness, share the Word, speak what's in your heart, but do it without also pointing fingers and throwing accusations. If you're doing it to prove you're right, you've done it for the wrong reasons. Share it with love, so that the message can be heard by all without animosity. Don't you see how this can be counterproductive?
I only say this because it's been the one thing weighing most heavily on my heart lately...that we, as Christians, use the Bible to beat other Christians over the head because they might disagree with something. That doesn't accomplish anything except creating a great divide. We need to stand together as one and share the Word so that the message can be heard. We can't beat someone over the head with it and hope they'll listen, no matter how "right" we believe ourselves to be. Creating that divide is absolutely the work of Satan...I believe that very strongly.
Jaded,
It's not about "being right or being wrong" personally, it's about the authority of God's Word in our lives.
Here we have direct proof that this man, Mel White, is actually telling gay christian theology members not to discuss the Bible. Yet, you didn't even mention that fact in your comment. The only thing you saw was something that you perceive to be wrong with my words here rather than addressing the blatant heresy in Mel White's statements.
Sorry Jaded, but I don't think that what I wrote here is anywhere near as dangerous in "turning people away from the true Gospel of Christ" as was that which was being encouraged by the false teacher, Mel White.
In addition:
I didn't point a finger.
I asked Deb to read it.
I didn't throw an accusation (her way).
I accused this leader of heresy (which it most definitely is).
I wasn't angry.
I am concerned, however.
I wasn't lashing out.
I was making others aware.
When Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers, wasn't he angry and aggressive?
Why do you think he did that? What kind of message was he sending to the bystanders?
The "passive Jesus" is a new, social construction of those who want to mold Jesus into their own image and likeness.
That's known as idolatry!
This is serious business within the church (not a building or denomination, but all who belong to Jesus Christ)that we are specifically warned about in Scripture (see Jude) to avoid and expose. Are you trying to tell me that I shouldn't be exposing it?
You wrote: "Creating that divide is absolutely the work of Satan...I believe that very strongly."
It is certainly your right to believe as you do with that particular statement.
But if you deem it necessary to pursue the moral relativism that the world embraces (and, thus, to be "tolerant of all Christians," as you so obviously are of Deb's brand of heretical Christianity), then please give me the same courtesy to express my beliefs.
I see a huge, destructive movement permeating and turning others away from true Christian faith.
Sharing the true gospel of Christ isn't like delving into a video game where one "choses what they want to believe."
Nor, should we be "of this world (meaning, it's moral systems)." Jesus told us that His kingdom is "not of this world."
Therefore, what should be each Christian's absolute obligation when sharing the gospel of truth and God's Word? Acceptance of Jesus Christ and the Bible's inerrant authority in their faith and life.
Read Matthew 13:16-30 which covers two parables, "the sower" and "the wheat and the tares."
One more point. Which is worse. "Beating other Christians (as you put it) over the head with the Bible" or completely eliminating the Bible from study and influencing in the lives of those who are attempting to seek Christ?
I know my answer to that question.
P.S. In another thread (here at this blog), Deb has thrown in the proverbial towel, so to speak, and claims that she will not discuss this with me anymore. So, it is most likely that she won't read the Mel White post anyway.
She is now officially utilizing the Truthphobia move right out of Mel White's deception playbook.
May the Holy Spirit of God open her eyes to the truth one day soon.
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Also, Jaded, if the subject being promoted as "not sin" by a group of people who arbitrarily decided that such things stated in the Bible are "not sins anymore" were the type of sins that you couldn't possible agree with (examples like "pedophile christian movement", or "thieves christian movement", or "idolatry is OK christian movement,") would you be as critical of me and accepting of that kind of heresy?
The following was added to the original post. In case you missed it:
Some additional thoughts:
I am currently reading an excellent book written by Greg Laurie called, "The Great Compromise."
Although it was written back in 1994, it is almost prophetic regarding the current gay christian movement compromise in the chapter called, "What's Your Golden Calf?"
In the section labeled, "A few modern idols", Greg writes:
Idols can be lots of things. Let's list a few things that qualify as idols.
1. Other people
While the Israelites' second idol took the form of a golden calf, their first idol - believe it or not - was Moses. To the Israelites, their godly leader - a man known for his upright lifestyle and personal integrity - was an icon. By his godly and uncompromising lifestyle he was able, apparently, to single-handedly keep two to three million people from turning to idolatry. But the minute he was out of the picture, they flocked to it. (bold mine)
The minute Moses went up to the mountain, the Israelites started looking for a loophole. Essentially, what they were saying was: "Look, Moses was a great guy, and we really respect him as a man of integrity and godliness. But he's just a little too spiritual for us. We can't live that way. In fact, we don't want to live that way. What we need is an easy religion that will fit our lifestyle. We've decided to lower our standards a bit. We need a god we can touch - one who appeals to the senses." (bold mine)
There are many people today who are able to stand strong when they're around other Christians. But when you get them off by themselves, they quickly blend into the woodwork. They begin to lower their standards. And before you know it, they've fallen victim to compromise. Aaron was put to such a test, and he failed miserably. Had he been able to stand strong for the Lord, he might have turned the people back from their idolatry. Instead, he helped them toward it.
When you say, in big capital letters, "WILL YOU FINALLY LISTEN??" how can you then not understand that this is finger pointing and lashing out?
I didn't comment on the article, because it's ridiculous to think that any true Christian would think it's ok to just toss the Bible aside and be done with it. Are there people who do this? Of course, but they're not true Christians to start with.
And when you pose this "lesser of two evils" scenario:
"One more point. Which is worse. "Beating other Christians (as you put it) over the head with the Bible" or completely eliminating the Bible from study and influencing in the lives of those who are attempting to seek Christ?
I know my answer to that question"
They are both, in fact, evil. Both drive people away from God. One isn't better than the other, both are wrong. Can you imagine Jesus saying to you, or to anyone "You drove many people away from me" and the response being "Yes, but I was right." ??
Being tolerant is not the same thing as accepting certain things. It's merely allowing for open dialogue so that the true word can be heard. If you beat people up with it, you make them shut down. If you listen with an open heart, you can share the true word of the Bible, and maybe someone will hear it.
Not everyone who doesn't agree with you is a heretic. Not everyone who worships differently than you do is a false prophet.
The prophets predicted a new covenant between God and humans — a new basis of relationship. The fact that a new covenant would be made implies two things about the covenant made at Sinai: 1) The Sinai covenant was temporary, serving a temporary purpose, and 2) it was not complete for God's ultimate plan and purpose. The new covenant, unlike the one made at Sinai, will last forever. It is designed for eternal life. "If there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another" (Heb. 8:7).
What was wrong with the first covenant? "God found fault with the people" (verse 8). God foretold this to Moses: "These people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" (Deut. 31:16-18). The people were unable to obey the laws — and since the blessings were conditioned on the Israelites' obedience, the covenant was limited.
We have a relationship with God, and that relationship is on the basis of the new covenant, not the old. In the new covenant, God gives some commands and makes some promises, and those promises have already begun to be fulfilled. The Holy Spirit is given to us not only to transform our hearts but also as a down payment of greater blessings to come (2 Cor. 1:22). Just as the old covenant was made before all the promises were delivered, so also the new covenant has been established before all its promises are completely given.
The new covenant was ratified through the blood of Jesus Christ. Not only did his death pay for our sins, it also ended the old covenant and began the new. When we drink the wine in commemoration of Jesus' death, we show our acceptance of the new covenant, including the forgiveness that is given because of his shed blood.
In Hebrews 8:13, it clearly says that the new covenant treats the old as obsolete...ready to vanish away.Here we see the reason that Christians are not required to keep some of God's laws — because God has declared some of them obsolete. Since God has grouped his laws into covenants, it is essential that we understand the covenants if we want to understand why some Old Testament laws no longer need to be kept. Much of the Old Testament is built on the old covenant, and much of the New Testament is about the new covenant. Although a covenant is not exactly the same as a testament, the concepts are so closely related that a single Greek word is used for both.
The idea of a loving savior isn't a new-age thing. Jesus, Himself, says that you have to abide in His love...that you must follow His commandments, and His commandment is to love one another as He loved us. He says it more than once in John 15 alone. That says to me that it was pretty important to Him, and that there are ways to share His love and His word without driving people away. We must stand together as one in the body of Christ and in the Holy Spirit. We must find ways to spread the word and bring people to Him.
Jaded,
If you see what I am doing as evil:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
then I can't help you, either.
hsonrnzbjaded,
you quote "If there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another" (Heb. 8:7).
jaded, the old covenant was by it's very nature external. The new covenant is internal.
We have a relationship with God, and that relationship is on the basis of the new covenant, not the old.
First of all covenant means Contract. No contract of God is voided by Man, ever.
In Hebrews 8:13, it clearly says that the new covenant treats the old as obsolete...ready to vanish away.
Yes jaded, speaking of the High Priest in the Levitical system. They were men, and men have sin and could not legitimately appoint themeselves to High Priest. You will notice shorly after the book of Hebrews was written the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and Levitical worship ended. Not by chance I might add! Christ is our new High Priest!
Here we see the reason that Christians are not required to keep some of God's laws — because God has declared some of them obsolete.
No jaded! God's law is eternal. Do you see how foolish it is to think an eternal perfect God makes a law and then does away with it? The only thing done away with was the idea that keeping the law could save you (salvation). No one can keep the law, many thought they could. Hebrews was written to believing christian jews. They were being tempted to go back to the Levitical system because of persecution. To do that was to nail Christ yet again to the Cross.
To put it in simple terms, The entire NT expalins our new responsiblities to the New Covetant. Do this, and God will do this.
Not everyone who doesn't agree with you is a heretic. Not everyone who worships differently than you do is a false prophet.
Ah the old 'eveyone' theme again. No jaded, there is one truth and most will distort it and revise it to meet their earthly desires, all in the name of love and Christ. Such are in danger of eternal Hell sister. I am not interested in 'open dialouge', I am interested in knowing God's Holy truth, no exceptions, no multiple choice truths, no buffet of God's word.
In addition your comment was written by Michael Morrison; copyright 1997 by author.
You are right, Mark...I tried to post the link to the page I was referring to, but it didn't work as a link apparently. Here it is again, only I'm not trying to make it a link... you'll have to copy and paste:
http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/otl/otl04.htm
I didn't read it after I posted so I didn't know it didn't work. I put that in to show that I am not the only one who can read the Bible and draw the same conclusions. Actually, the whole paragraph I wrote which included the link didn't post as I look at it now. I have no idea what I did wrong. I'm not good with all the html for links etc.
You should be open to dialogue, because Jesus Himself spoke with anyone and everyone who would listen. He was a rabbai, a teacher... we must study and discuss His lessons. If you believe that you and you alone have all of the answers, you just might be headed for trouble. You must be open to learning, because you can't grow unless you are. There have been many men and women throughout history who are more learned than we are who have drawn different conclusions than both of us. It's important to study, discuss and be open to the idea that perhaps we DON'T know it all.
It's important to study, discuss and be open to the idea that perhaps we DON'T know it all.
I agree jaded, I think my point may be better expressed that there is one truth and it is found in the scripture. Studying it, praying over it is key. What is true for instance to 'abc' is not ok with God just because 'abc' says it is and loves Christ.
All things must be compared to the Light of scripture. If we do that, we are doing it right. If we change scripture, re-invent it, ignore the tough verses, mis apply verse like your comment did etc.. we end up making ourselves 'little gods'. Only Satan loves when that happens, not God. I know you didn't do it on purpose and you were just expressing another view, but that view is dead wrong. God's law is eternal. No law of God is obsolete.
If you believe that you and you alone have all of the answers, you just might be headed for trouble.
I don't and I am not alone even if I did. I do however encourage you to have the strength not be so wishy washy and lay a firm hand on what you know is a lie, and stop making excuses not to confront those teaching False doctrine becuase you want to be polite or not offend. Proclaim God's word with humility, meekness, etc..but at lest proclaim it. Tell 'abc' they are wrong and why. Otherwise at the risk of not offending you sometimes come across as afraid or just unsure of your own convictions in God's truth. a mist in the pulpit, creates a fog in the pews eh?
You won't know False teachings unless you are indeed rooted in God's word. Christine is, and uses the scripture, not her own wisdom to correct. You seem to have a problem with that, not sure why? You seem grounded in Christ.
btw I have never had my comment links work either. Another thing we have in common! :)
jaded,
Please read this
Hebrews 8 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;
5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
This is a great contrast between the Old and New. Jesus you will remember was not a Levite and not even qualified by the Hebrew's author audience standard's to even be a High Priest. I ask you to contrast the external thinking of the Levitical system and the internal thinking of Christ being the new High Priest vs sinful men.
You will notice, it is not the law that changed, but the spirit of the law that was revealed. In Christ the law is fullfilled, not done away with. To do away with the law of God is to change His holiness. Something man may attempt to do, but will do so at his own destruction. I believe that is exactly why Christine is so passionate about letting others know that eternal truth.
A 'gay theology' among many other unbiblical worldly thinking wants nothing more than to reduce that Holiness to a man made standard, making Christ on the cross a mockery of truth and God's love.
Well, first Mark, I'll say that the reason I don't quote scripture as a means of showing I'm right in my thoughts and beliefs too often is that unfortunately, much of what is said on blogs can be misinterpreted. Things can appear one way when we meant something entirely different. I don't like to get into a Battle of the Bible because for every verse I can quote to support my belief, someone else can come up with another one to show that they're the one in the right. How is that productive? How does that bring someone closer to God? I believe that we can learn more about what a person believes by listening to more than quoted scripture, especially in this form of communication.
Next, I don't agree with anything that would be called "gay theology" or any sort of created belief system. I think there's a difference between someone who identifies themselves as a gay Christian and someone who would use the Bible to promote a gay lifestyle as Biblically sound. I don't believe the Bible promotes that, however, I don't know if someone who worships Jesus as their Savior will be damned to hell for being gay. I think there's a difference between the two ideas.
I have made my living almost solely in the entertainment industry since I was 18 years old. I have many friends who are gay, and I love them dearly. Most would call themselves spiritual rather than Christian. We often debate that "spirituality" isn't enough to get you to heaven, that you have to make a commitment to Jesus. I also have friends who aren't Christian at all...some are Jewish, some are Muslim, some are Pagan... I respect their choices and they respect mine, even though I don't agree. That doesn't stop me from sharing the Bible and the love of Christ with them. It's important to spread the word...what they do with that information is entirely up to them, however. Should I not associate with people who don't share my beliefs? Should I only associate with other Christians who believe what I do in the manner in which I do?
For me, I think it's best to speak first of God's love for us as His children...to let them hear the good news that Jesus died for our sins because He loved us so much. When you can approach people with that, they will want to learn more, in most cases. When they learn they can have all of the rewards of heaven, we can teach them how to receive them. Yes, the gate is a narrow one, but if we push others so far away from God that they don't care about the gate in the first place, how is that helping? When we've driven a huge wedge between us as Christians and those who are looking for answers to the point that they won't listen to a word we have to say, how is that good? Should we scare people so badly that the don't even want to know God?
I'm afraid that much of what I'm trying to say is being lost because of this form of communication. I'm not saying that we water down the Bible and make excuses for people. But are there things in the OT that we DON'T follow now? Yes! We don't have an eye for an eye, and we absolutely DO spare the rod with our children, and many other things. I am saying that we need to show them how powerful and wonderful God's love is for us, so that they are drawn to Him and want to learn how to enter the gate. There are better ways to go about this than screaming, yelling, damning people to hell, using sarcasm, being self-righteous and many of the other things I've seen many people do on blogs in an effort to prove that they're right.
Ugh, I can't even think straight anymore today, so I don't know if I've made my point in the way I wanted to make it. Is it any wonder I can't master the whole "link in a comment" thing?
I don't like to get into a Battle of the Bible because for every verse I can quote to support my belief, someone else can come up with another one to show that they're the one in the right.
That is simply not true. If two Christians accept the authority of scripture, the differences will be nothing compared to the false doctrine you're willing to accept with a couple of verses thrown at you. jaded, I bet you are afraid of being called 'un loving' eh? Be strong, not in you, but in God's word.
How is that productive? How does that bring someone closer to God? I believe that we can learn more about what a person believes by listening to more than quoted scripture, especially in this form of communication.
I agree. But it is in this very forum that folks, like you and I and how many others, hear & read lies. I can learn a lot about someone's blog etc.. who sells a book based on what? lies perhaps? leading others down a relative road and not absolute truths?
I believe that we can learn more about what a person believes by listening to more than quoted scripture, especially in this form of communication.
You just put one's feelings over God's word. Do you see how subtle False doctrine is? You can't possible think 'feeling' something makes it Holy and right? I know you do not.
Should I not associate with people who don't share my beliefs? Should I only associate with other Christians who believe what I do in the manner in which I do?
No and No. What good would that do? All Christian's associate on a daily basis with non belivers etc..We are told we would. What an incredible opportunity for sharing Christ on the cross.
I think it's best to speak first of God's love for us as His children... to let them hear the good news that Jesus died for our sins because He loved us so much. When you can approach people with that, they will want to learn more, in most cases.
humm ok...how about this jaded..
"I make $450K a year. I have a family I love and everything I could possible need! I could give a rats butt about your God jaded. He has done nothing for me. I worked my ass off for all I have. Take your Christ, your God, your Bible bullshit somewhere else dear!' Oh and Ms Goodie, I am giving my 'other' play thing $500 to pay for an abortion. I guess that is wrong in your self rightious eyes too hugh!? You Bible thumpers make me sick! Thank God for Seperation of Church and State! Don't talk about your sin with me! I have no sin bitch!
Now what jaded? :)
But are there things in the OT that we DON'T follow now? Yes! We don't have an eye for an eye, and we absolutely DO spare the rod with our children, and many other things.
Now you are indeed tired. I would remind you, God's law is eternal. Why would God make a law and say 'ok, no more law!'. Think of the external, internal, and a Holiness we will never reach this side of heaven.
I am saying that we need to show them how powerful and wonderful God's love is for us, so that they are drawn to Him and want to learn how to enter the gate.
Nothing will prepare a Man's heart for grace until He fully realizes the true Law of God and how he falls short. It is the Law of God that prepares the heart for grace jaded. No one needs a savior until they realize they need one.
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