This brought back to my mind a conversation I had years ago with a Christian believer who held to the Mid-tribulation Rapture view. That link is a Bing list to 692,000 additional links where you could find out information about that view. I checked out some of the links found on the first page of the Bing list. The third one I clicked on was a good explanation of why the Pre-Wrath/Mid-Tribulation view of the Rapture doesn't quite fit what the Bible tells us regarding when the Rapture will occur..
Is the Mid-Tribulation
or
Pre-Wrath Rapture the Biblical View?
For example:
Excerpt:
2. Problem with this view:
The devastating events of Revelation 6:16-17 and Revelation 7:14 occur before the middle of the Tribulation. The Tribulation (Daniel's Seventh Week) begins with the outpouring of the Seal judgments, followed by the Trumpets and ending with the Bowl or Vial judgments. There is no break in the progressive judgments only a worsening of the wrath of God as they are cast upon the earth.
3. Revelation 6:1-15. The events of Revelation 6-10, reveal a very terrible time for the Earth. Note the terrible events of the seven seal judgments and the six trumpet judgments:
Verse 2 White horse: This rider goes forth conquering and to conquer. It is probably the Antichrist who appears to be white in that he offers peace to the world. He deceives the nations and all the while he is talking peace he is conquering the nations of earth and setting up himself as the world dictator.
It is imperative to acknowledge who it is that is opening the Seals and directing the Seal Judgments. It is plainly the Lamb who is the Lord Jesus Christ. It is ridiculous to conclude that these terrible judgments are the "wrath of man" and not part of God's wrath. Without question Revelation 6:1 is telling us that the Seal Judgments are the beginning of God's pouring His wrath on the earth. They are initiated by Jesus Christ and under His direction and control and part of His plan. On this point alone the Pre-Wrath view is shown to be in error.
The chaos that has been increasing over the last several years could cause some Christians to believe that we already are in the midst of the Great Tribulation! But are we? Jesus did tell us that we would go through such times prior to the Great Tribulation as described in the book of Revelation. However, in Matthew 24:6, Jesus informs us, "but the end is not yet."
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Going through such times is just "the beginning of sorrows."
We are certainly going through these "sorrows." They are intensifying and the
"nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" [Egypt, Libya, for example] is now happening right before our very eyes! The amount of Earthquakes each year are increasing exponentially and becoming even more intense than in past decades.
It helps to read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 to get the correct context of this portion of Scripture. I will be commenting further on Matthew 24 tomorrow.
But I wanted to leave this post tonight with the hope of Romans 8 [from Blue Letter Bible]:
Rom 8
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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2 comments:
Six years ago you were blaming some unidentified South Asian country for its “greed within the tourist industry there” which led to people ignoring or downplaying the likelihood of a tsunami disaster. Well, Japan doesn't qualify; they have always lived with such danger, and they don't ignore it. Unlike Haiti, Japan has the wealth, knowledge, and infrastructure to protect themselves.
You never cared about Muslim unrest before, so why now? For once, that unrest is internal. The people have ousted Mubarak in Egypt, and there is essentially civil war in Libya now...but Saudi Arabia is quiet, and so is Jordan, Turkey, and even Indonesia. The turmoil is not universal. Most Muslims, like most Christians, have more immediate concerns, like paying rent and food bills.
Here in the USA we do have people who desire a change from representational government to an autocratic, authoritarian, Christian-nationalist theocracy, but I do not believe they will prevail, and I am doing my part to see they do not. Socially, there's quite a bit of unrest, but we remain politically stable; when foreign investors stop spending money here, then we'll know we're in trouble.
But of course you wish to see this as yet another milepost on the road to The End. That extensive list of biblical quotes to support you don't seem to be helping much, however. “Mid-Tribulation” or “Pre-Wrath Rapture” are controversies only among Christians—no Buddhist or Jew is particularly concerned...and I, as 'none of the Above' am not losing any sleep over it either.
There IS chaos afoot, but it's not supernaturally engineered, and it will not last forever. Only in that last part can you and I agree.
”If you look at life one way, there is always cause for alarm.”
As a correction, the mid-trib view is not the prewrath position. The prewrath position is entirely different.
Thank you,
Alan
www.prewrathrapture.com
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