A Christian Convo re: Swimsuits & Miss CA [Video added]

Over at Camp On This I got into a conversation about Miss California - Carrie Prejean - and the objections that some Christians bring up about the swimsuit part of the Miss U.S.A. pageant competition. Of course, Christian believers can disagree on issues like this one. Perhaps you might agree with what Byron Harvey has written. However, I felt led to stand up for Carrie's decision to enter into pageantry and state why I (personally) think that the swimsuit portion of the competition should not be deemed as something negative that would take away from her Christian witness.

Here is a copy of the first comment:

Byron Harvey said...
Very respectfully, Steve, I think that the issue of the very immodest bikini she was wearing is a significant part of the issue here, because in your original post, you laud not only her (laudable!) answer regarding "gay marriage", but you lift her up as, effectively, a role model with many opportunities to share her faith in Christ, etc. If you'd stopped at lauding her response only, I'd agree with you, but I argue that while she may be a fine person in many respects, and gave a gutsy answer, her testimony is compromised by her quite immodest choice in attire. She wanted to be, she said, "biblically correct", which I applaud, but that outfit was anything but, and I think that before we lift her up as a paragon of Christian witness, we consider the quite contradictory messages that she sent on that evening.

Though I'm not sure you're doing this, Steve, I believe it's a shame when Christians "swallow" a lot of stuff just to lift up people who get it right in some ways. I agree with a lot of the things Rush Limbaugh says, but he's no paragon of virtue; similarly, Carrie Prejean's total performance that evening is far more a mixed bag than I think your words suggest.

21:01

Christinewjc said...
Byron,

I'm sure that Steve will have a better reply than mine, but my response is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" however, so is lust.

21:48

Byron Harvey said...
Thanks, Christine, and I'm eager for Steve's response, but the issue isn't lust on the part of the looker (though her outfit certainly could incite lust easily, it seems to me), but the modesty appropriate for one who is "biblically correct", in her words. For me, it's simple: if a Christian young lady, in any circumstance, asked me, "would wearing this outfit bring honor to Christ, Pastor", there wouldn't be any hesitation: absolutely not. I'm not sure that women sometimes understand the male mind, how quickly men can be led to lustful thoughts under any circumstances, and how readily such apparel worn by beautiful young ladies does so. And don't kid yourselves: it ain't just me, ladies, it's every red-blooded man in America (endemic to our fallen maleness). Here's the bottom line question:
Steve, would you ever encourage a sincere Christ-following young lady to wear such an outfit, under any circumstances? And if not, how does Miss California get a pass, merely on the basis of one great answer?

21:57

Byron,

I can understand your feeling that way. Perhaps the reason that I don't see things your way is because of our gender difference.

With that said, let me see if I can make my point in another way.

Let's pretend that there was such a thing as a middle-aged "Ms. U.S.A. pageant" and I was the CA representative. As a 54 year old woman, I would personally absolutely HATE to put on a bikini and walk across a stage in it. I'd rather wear one like the illustration at the top of this post! Of course my body would NEVER get the same reaction (more like laughter!!) as Carrie's beautiful figure obviously gets! LOL! However, if such an act gave me the possible opportunity to witness for Christ in front of millions (well, probably a lot less would watch it!) of people - then, for HIM - I would do it.

My obviously dopey illustration is meant to show that two different reactions to the "physical" presence of the Christian isn't what matters the most. If I got the same question while standing up there and answered it in a similar way - then both of us would have accomplished a similar end. So, my questions to you are - is one shameful and not the other? Would both be considered shameful?

Carrie Prejean is going to appear at the Rock Church (Pastor Miles McPherson) this Sunday. I will share what she has to say at the service in a future blog post.

From what I have heard her say in dozens of T.V. interviews, she wanted to use the Miss U.S.A. position (as well as her current Miss California role) to share the love of Christ - in any capacity that she can. Therefore, I can safely say that she isn't in pageantry for the wrong reasons.

You may see her answer as just "one moment" of standing up for Christ - but sometimes, that is all it takes to start a spark of a movement for the Kingdom.

Her steadfast faith, courage to speak the truth, grace in fighting back disgusting rhetoric against her with nothing but kindness and goodness, and pointing to Jesus Christ for the reason she lives is a powerful testament and example for young people. Her courage will bring forth many more courageous young women (and men) to speak boldly for Christ - even when a firestorm of controversy and protest might erupt.

Carrie was David to Perez Hilton's Goliath. Her answer didn't physically "kill the beast", but it certainly stunned him! It also stunned many more like him. Those celebrities who took his side came out to share in the bashing party.

Ephesians 6 comes to mind.

Especially these verses:

Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;


Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:


Eph 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.


Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].


Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;


Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;


Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.


Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;


Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

This last verse is a life verse for me:


Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


Readers - what are your thoughts on this matter?

Hat Tip:

Camp On This

Blue Letter Bible

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P.S. Will post any additional responses as they appear at Camp on This

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Update:

Byron replies:

Byron Harvey said...
Christine,

Great analogy--and I'm sure that the sight of me, a 48-year-old guy, in a Speedo would provoke a similar reaction!

Now, that said, here's what your rationale sounds like; correct me if I miss it: "the end ("speaking for Christ to millions") justifies the means" (dressing in an inappropriate outfit--inappropriate, IMHO, for 54-year-olds and young ladies alike, though one could, I suppose, make the argument that the "lust factor" is lessened when such garments are displayed on us middle-aged folk!). It's never right to do wrong to do right, I believe--and I think Steve believes that--and I think that's what your reasoning comes off as. To use a different analogy, what if instead of wearing a skimpy bikini, she had performed in a talent portion (does Miss USA have such? I don't know...) by singing some suggestive song, rapping out a nice hip-hop tune with its vulgarity instead of dressing so immodestly? I'd hope that you'd agree with me that such actions would compromise her witness, making her words ring more hollow than they might otherwise. As I see it, there's no difference whatever.

I don't mean to suggest, by the way, that Miss Prejean's answer was the only moment of her "standing up for Christ"; I know nothing of her life, and from what you've said, it seems she does so on more than one occasion, and that's great. My only point is that her words are compromised by her immodesty.

I wouldn't begin to presume to question her motives for being in the Miss USA pageant; it may well be that everything she says is true about wanting to gain a platform to speak for Christ. But that's not the point at all; it's not why she did it, but what she did. You suggest that other young ladies might be emboldened to speak up for Christ; I'd counter with the just-as-likely scenario that other young ladies might join in our society's rush to jettison modesty, lowering (still further) any sense of Christian modesty, inciting more young men to lust as they parade their bodies barely clad. See what I'm driving at?

And still dying to hear our friend Steve's take...

By the way, I think Carla makes a trenchant point as well...

13:39

My reply coming shortly...

Feel free to comment!

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As I wrote in the comment section, my time at the computer is limited this weekend. I will be checking in periodically to release comments and when I have the opportunity, reply to the comments.

While briefly looking through my reading list, I ran across this video from TownHall.com where a CNN reporter tries to get Miss California to admit her political party affiliation. Carrie does a great job in steering the conversation back on topic:

CNN Reporter tries to get Miss California to admit her political party affiliation.

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Related articles:

Randy Thomasson blog: Miley vs. Jesus on marriage

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Update:

Christine wrote:

A thought came to my mind today.

In swimming competitions, men often wear those awful speedo swimsuits. They are very clingy...if you know what I mean.

Two questions.

Why is that not considered immodest?

Why would a Christian man not be considered a strong witness for Christ (if he is a believer) despite wearing such an article of clothing for a swimming competition?

Byron replied (the portion of his comment directed to me at Campi's blog):

And Christine, maybe somebody else will, but you won't get me defending Speedos on men (and you definitely won't get me wearing one!).

Byron wrote:

And Christine, maybe somebody else will, but you won't get me defending Speedos on men (and you definitely won't get me wearing one!).

Christine replied:

Would you do it for the Lord?

Would you do it if your wearing of a speedo in a competition allowed you the opportunity to share the Gospel of Christ and the truth of the Bible to millions of people?

P.S. Please see this article regarding celebrities who claim to be Christian and how they compromise the truth.

Randy Thomasson blog: Miley vs. Jesus on marriage

FYI - I brought our conversation over to my blog so feel free to comment there also.

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Update:
Received an email from The Rock Church. You can watch the 36 minute segment with Carrie Prejean online!

The Rock San Diego: Miss California

LIVE STREAMING OF MISS CALIFORNIA CARRIE PREJEAN AT THE ROCK - Watch 36 minute conversation live online

[NOTE: Only the 10:00 a.m. (PT) and 12:00 p.m. (PT) services will be available via live stream.]

Excerpt:

SAN DIEGO (April 24, 2009)—On-line viewers will be able to watch a live 36 minute conversation between Carrie Prejean, Miss California and Miss USA’s first runner up, and Miles McPherson, Senior Pastor of the Rock Church.

Prejean will appear at the Rock Church during all five services on Sunday April 26th. Prejean is a member of the Rock family and actively serves in church outreach ministries. The 10:00am and 12:00pm (pst) services will be streamed live, viewable at The Rock San Diego.org.

The Rock’s Senior Pastor Miles McPherson, spent time with Prejean in the critical hours following the pageant. They will share the story behind the controversy that we haven’t heard.

During the question and answer portion of Sunday’s Miss USA pageant, Prejean expressed her belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman, touching off a firestorm of widely publicized criticism from pageant judge and nationally known celebrity blogger Perez Hilton. In subsequent appearances, Prejean has stood fast in her morals and Biblical truths, refusing to compromise her faith.