Thursday, July 07, 2005

Good vs. Evil

Today, we all woke up to the news of a terrorist attack in the city of London. As President Bush so aptly pointed out, there is a huge
contrast between what civilized people do and how they act (referring
to the G8 leaders meeting to help alleviate the poverty, spread of HIV/Aids, and environmental issues in Africa) versus those whose only goal is to kill and destroy ANY life because of their rabid evil ideology. The contrast between good and evil could not be more stark or more clear.

We mourn the loss of life and pray for the recovery of the injured from this horrific display of moral evil in the hearts of Islamofascists whose goal is like Satan's himself...to steal, kill, and destroy.

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) - The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

The answer?

Jeremiah 17:10 (KJV) - I the LORD search the heart, [I] try
the reins, even to give every man according to his ways,
[and] according to the fruit of his doings.

The Bible is so unique in it's relevance to the time it was written as well
as to how relevant it is for today. Look at the following verses of
Jeremiah 17 (NLT) and note how they can apply today:

Judah's Sin and Punishment
The Lord says, "My people act as though their evil ways are laws to be obeyed, inscribed with a diamond point on their stony hearts, or with an iron chisel on the corners of their altars. 2 Even their children go to worship at their sacred altars and Asherah poles, beneath every green tree and on every high hill. 3 So I will give all your wealth and treasures-together with your pagan shrines-as plunder to your

enemies, for sin runs rampant in your land. 4 The wonderful inheritance I have reserved for you will slip out of your
hands, and I will send you away as captives to a foreign land. For you have kindled my anger into a roaring fire that will burn forever."
Wisdom from the Lord
5 This is what the Lord says: "Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans and turn their hearts away from the Lord. 6 They are like stunted shrubs in the desert, with no hope for the future. They will live in the barren wilderness,

on the salty flats where no one lives.
7 "But blessed are those who trust in the Lord and have made the Lord their hope and confidence. 8 They are like trees planted along a riverbank, with roots that reach deep into

the water. Such trees are not bothered by the heat or worried by long months of drought. Their leaves stay green, and they go right on producing delicious fruit.
9 "The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is? 10 But I know! I, the Lord, search all hearts and examine secret motives. I give all people their due rewards, according to what their actions deserve."



There are people in this world whose only goal is to steal and destroy. Perhaps they see themselves as incapable of killing anyone (physically), but their goal to kill another's walk with Christ and/or ministry which is involved with sharing the gospel of Christ is extremely evident. Such people must have suffered greatly within their own individual lives in order to be so cruel as to try and ruin another's reputation and ministry outreach. It makes you wonder what was done to them for them to be so bitter, mean, angry, hateful and out to destroy another person's life and ministry just because they are so miserable within their own lives. The good news is that just like satan is already a defeated foe, so are the efforts of those who choose to remain in his grip of deception and purposely attempt to thwart the efforts of those saved by God's grace.

We are finding out more and more of the horrendous details regarding the kidnapper/rapist who killed the parents and brother of the two Groene children. Apparently he had a blog that detailed the fact that he was abused and sexually assaulted when he was young. The old adage that abused children often become abusers themselves is very evident in this person's life. The blog stated that his goal was to cause harm and wreak havoc upon society as best he could before dying himself. This is an individual who is in bondage to sin, evil and death. It could not be more evident who his particular 'god' is...the evil one himself. Is this man's sin more terrible than anyone elses? Human wisdom would judge...of course! If you are reading this and thinking that your sin is
not as grievious, then you won't like reading the rest of this post.

The fact is that all sin is rebellion against God and his laws. This is why we cannot save ourselves and must, of necessity, look to the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ for all of our sins. There is no other way to be reconciled to Holy God. Period. The Bible reveals what God did for us through Jesus Christ to overcome the sin, evil and death penalty that
we ALL would deserve.

Now, I would like to mention that there are many people who have had horrendous things happen to them because of evil, sin and death in this world. This has made them bitter, angry, deceitful, hateful, revengeful, and causes them to lash out at anyone who has obviously been rescued from their plight. Such people have made it their duty to attempt to ruin others through their bitter hatred that wreaks havoc within their own souls and they don't even realize that what they are fighting against
is the very thing that could help rescue them from their miserable plight. Jesus describes such people in not so flattering terms:

John 8:44 (NLT) - For you are the children of your father the Devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with
his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Either we are for the Lord or against him. There is no inbetween
in this matter. There is no gray area in the contrast between good vs. evil, salvation vs.condemnation, surrender vs. cold heartedness, grace
vs. pride, forgiveness from God vs. contempt for God, mercy vs. judgment, hope vs. despair, love vs. hatred, friend of God vs. enemy of God.

Psalm 94:16 (KJV) - Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? [or] who will stand up for me against the workers
of iniquity?



Psalm 94 (NLT)

1
O Lord, the God to whom vengeance belongs,
O God of vengeance, let your glorious justice be seen!
2
Arise, O judge of the earth.
Sentence the proud to the penalties they deserve.
3
How long, O Lord?
How long will the wicked be allowed to gloat?
4
Hear their arrogance!
How these evildoers boast!
5
They oppress your people, Lord,
hurting those you love.
6
They kill widows and foreigners
and murder orphans.
7
"The Lord isn't looking," they say,
"and besides, the God of Israel* doesn't care."
8
Think again, you fools!
When will you finally catch on?
9
Is the one who made your ears deaf?
Is the one who formed your eyes blind?
10
He punishes the nations-won't he also punish you?
He knows everything-doesn't he also know what you are doing?
11
The Lord knows people's thoughts,
that they are worthless!
12
Happy are those whom you discipline, Lord,
and those whom you teach from your law.
13
You give them relief from troubled times
until a pit is dug for the wicked.
14
The Lord will not reject his people;
he will not abandon his own special possession.
15
Judgment will come again for the righteous,
and those who are upright will have a reward.
16
Who will protect me from the wicked?
Who will stand up for me against evildoers?
17
Unless the Lord had helped me,
I would soon have died.
18
I cried out, "I'm slipping!"
and your unfailing love, O Lord, supported me.
19
When doubts filled my mind,
your comfort gave me renewed hope and cheer.
20
Can unjust leaders claim that God is on their side-
leaders who permit injustice by their laws?
21
They attack the righteous
and condemn the innocent to death.
22
But the Lord is my fortress;
my God is a mighty rock where I can hide.
23
God will make the sins of evil people fall back upon them.
He will destroy them for their sins.
The Lord our God will destroy them.
Footnotes:
94:7
Hebrew of Jacob.


The book of Revelation describes what happens to those who lead
others astray.

Revelation 2:18-29 (NLT)

The Message to the Church in Thyatira
18 "Write this letter to the angel of the church in Thyatira.

This is the message from the Son of God, whose eyes are
bright like flames of fire, whose feet are like polished bronze:
19 "I know all the things you do-your love, your faith, your service, and your patient endurance. And I can see your constant improvement in all these things. 20 But I have this complaint against you. You are permitting that woman-that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet-to lead my servants

astray. She is encouraging them to worship idols, eat food offered to idols, and commit sexual sin. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she would not turn away from her immorality.
22 Therefore, I will throw her upon a sickbed, and she will suffer greatly with all who commit adultery with her, unless they turn away from all their evil deeds. 23 I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am the one who searches out the thoughts and intentions of every person. And I will give to each of you whatever you deserve.
24 But I also have a message for the rest of you in Thyatira
who have not followed this false teaching (`deeper truths,'
as they call them-depths of Satan, really). I will ask nothing more of you 25 except that you hold tightly to what you have until I come.
26 "To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end,

I will give authority over all the nations. 27 They will rule
the nations with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots.
28 They will have the same authority I received from my Father, and I will also give them the morning star! 29
Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit
and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Before the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ can be preached, the bad news of the deceitful hearts of
unregenerate man, which leads to all kinds of evil, sin and death must be faced by all of us! The only hope we have in
our situation is Jesus Christ. People who are NOT saved by
the grace of God HATE TO HEAR THESE FACTS OF GOD'S WORD. There is a great reason why. They have not been
born again (see previous post). Jesus told us, "You MUST be born again." Those who are not do not have the Holy Spirit indwelled in their hearts to help lead them unto
righteousness. Satan hates all those who take up Jesus' offer to be born again spiritually. The people under his deception and influence hate to hear this. Satan loves that fact, but he hates the people under his influence! People who are knowingly or unknowingly
under his wicked influence will do ANYTHING to deny, dismiss, mock, ridicule, ignore, disguise, skew and attempt to indoctrinate others to their own prideful views and ultimate detriment. These are the signs of the unrepentant, unregenerate heart.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the ONLY HOPE for them. They
can kick and scream and rage against this fact which ultimately will
end up causing their own doom. We either die with our own sin upon
our souls, or with Christ's redemptive sacrifice releasing us from the penalty of sin, evil and death. Your decision about this will last
for eternity. What's YOUR decision?

1 Corinthians 6:11 (NLT) - There was a time when some of
you were just like that, but now your sins have been
washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You
have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

Footnote: Or you have been cleansed.

13 comments:

Christinewjc said...

For someone who thinks of himself as an atheist/agnostic/secular humanist whose personal belief and take on our Creator is deemed as a 'fantasy', you sure have a lot to say against Him! Countering a 'fantasy'? That's not logical.

Hmmmm...what's wrong with this picture?

It is YOUR atheistic/agnostic/secular humanist 'deification' of Satan that certainly shines through...or should I say darkens through. Only light shines. Where darkness lurks it's aim is to destroy. The soul that is dark is absent of any light.

You can think what you want. Quote whom you choose. However, you will NEVER overtake the Word of God. You can't even overshadow it. When that Light shines through the darkness (such as that you obviously adhere to), it is then that the minions of such darkness (those of your ilk)scatter like cockroaches back into that dark, dank pit of despair.

I should probably end here, but for the sake of others who may venture over here and read I will post a few questions and answers that counter most of what your feeble and ridiculous rant so hopelessly, incorrectly, and hatefully spews.



Quote:
I want to know and understand where sin came from. I know it entered the world through deception by the serpent, but how did it enter into Lucifer? Where did it come from?





Quote:
The wording of your question implies that sin was some external force that entered into Lucifer. Rather, Lucifer was the author of sin. Being the highest of angels, he pridefully determined to set himself above God. This he did of his own free will and volition (for more on this, see my Renewal Theology, 1: chapter 10 on "Sin").



As a part of free will, Lucifer (turned Satan) had the ability to be the author (choice to choose his own) of sin. This reiterates what was posted previously. As the answer states, "this he did of his own free will and volition." As free-will creatures, we have the choice to do the same.

It is also important to note that God did not create the devil! He did create the angels, one of whom-possibly the highest-became the devil through his own willful action against God. The fact that the devil is instrumental in all evil thereafter does not mean that God is the cause of such since the devil was not originally God's creation.

God did not create evil. According to Genesis 1, everything God created, or made, was declared "good" (verses 4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25), indeed altogether "very good" (verse 31). Among the highest good there is the gift of freedom: "Man is that entity made to be free" Genuine freedom includes freedom of decision for or against God (man was not made a robot!). It was man's decision against God and His command that brought evil upon the earth. (Satan was also involved but not the cause of this evil; man was fully responsible.) Evil is disharmony that man willfully brought into the world.

More questions and answers:


Quote:
If God is omnipotent how come he can't do evil?



Because God is altogether holy; therefore, He will not do anything that contradicts His character. God is totally without sin. God the Almighty One is also God the All Holy One. In His omnipotence, He can do everything consonant with His holy nature and nothing in contradiction.



Quote:
Does evil in the world preclude the existence of God? It has been said that evil in the world precludes the existence of God, or at least takes away from His divine nature. Is this reasoning flawed and if so, why?



Evil in the world does not preclude the existence of God, but it might seem to preclude the existence of a holy and righteous God. God, however, is not the source of evil. It is the result of the sin of angels first, then man, who in the freedom God gave them were disobedient to Him and thereby brought evil into God's creation.



Quote:
How is God's permissive will related to the occurrence of sin and the Fall?



Sin could not have occurred without God's permissive will. It was a matter both of God's permission and of His will. God permitted it to happen, yet also through its occurrence He purposed to make it an instrument to manifest His grace and glory.

There is undoubtedly a strange paradox here. God surely did not will the sin of man, else He would have been the author of evil; yet He did will that through sin and the fall His purpose should be fulfilled. One aspect of this surely will be the demonstration of His grace, for only through sin will the glory of God's grace become utterly manifest. Without the sin of the human race, there would have been no Calvary and no demonstration of the incredible love of God. Thus it is through the very sin and fall of man that the "amazing grace" of God the Father in Jesus Christ will be made known.

The permissive will of God stands ultimately behind the sin and fall of mankind. This by no means mitigates the heinousness of sin and evil nor the ensuing misery of the human condition. But it does say that through it all God is sovereignly working out His purpose to manifest the heights of His grace and glory


Quote:
If God is perfect, if heaven is perfect, then why did so many angels rebel against God?



Among the highest perfections of all God's creatures is the freedom of the will. This applies to angels as well as human beings. Freedom of the will also includes the possibility of rebelling against God. Actually, if there were no freedom of the will the situation would be less than perfect.


Quote:
Why did God, who is Love, create us all knowing that many would go to hell?



I think and believe that God (the only Creator) sent us His Son to be Christ our Savior. I also believe that He knew how every individual person would end up in the End. Why then did He go ahead and create us all knowing that most people were going to hell with Satan and his angels. I say that on the basis of the Scripture that says that God is love. I don't believe I would do so with that knowledge and power of those I love. Maybe I just don't understand what love is.

God in creating us foreknew that sin, death, and hell would eventuate. Where then is God's love? It lies in the marvelous fact that He determined in Christ to pay the cost. Christ on the cross accordingly suffered the eternal punishment that is mankind's due, with the terrible darkness, its fiery pain, and total abandonment by God. With the cry of agony, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" (Mark 15:24), Christ bore the full weight of sin, death, and hell. In the words of Calvin, "Christ bore in His soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man." Thus hell is no reality foreign to God in that He has already experienced the worst that any person will have to endure. This truly is love beyond all comprehension




Quote:
If God is sovereign, but I must choose His plan of salvation, then who is in control of my destiny? God or me? If the answer is me, then is God sovereign?



In answer to your question, you must bear in mind the paradox between God's sovereignty and man's response. Both are included in a true understanding of salvation. It is a paradox because it seems contradictory to speak thus of a divine-human relationship. However, God and man are not on the same level. God remains sovereign throughout. Man remains responsible for his actions.



Quote:
Does God's omnipresence include hell and the lake of fire?



Hell is sometimes described in the Bible as a place of "outer darkness" (Matthew 8:11-12; 22:13, 25-30). It is therefore a place totally removed from God who is light. Omnipresence does not include hell, which is wholly the absence of God. The same thing is true of the lake of fire, which represents the agony of separation from God.



Quote:
Are we predestined ... chosen by God ... to become believers?



There is a proper way to put it. Rather than to say that we are predestined to become believers, we should say that we are predestined as believers. There are always two sides interchangeable: God and faith, God's sovereign action and our choice.



Quote:
Many times the Bible says that God has chosen certain individuals ahead of time to be His flock (sheep versus goats). Does it explain why He's done this in the Bible? What happens to the people who were never drawn to Him?



The words of Jesus in Matthew 22:14 are quite relevant, "For many are called, but few are chosen." This does not mean an arbitrary choice in regard to those chosen; rather the call is unlimited, and those who say "yes" are the chosen ones. Thus they are "God's chosen" by their own decision in answer to God's call. God's desire is to draw all people to Himself.



Quote:
What does the doctrine of "original sin" affirm?



"Original sin" refers to the fact that the human race is sinful in nature. This by no means refers to human nature as God made it-or makes it-but to the fact that before man commits any sin he is already a sinner. This situation may be described in terms both of sin being passed on to all people from the first man and our identification with primal man in his sin. However depicted, the important feature is that man does not come into the world as an innocent or neutral creature but is affected by sin in all aspects of his being (Psalm 58:3; cf. Psalm 51:5). Indeed, by virtue of this fact, man is vitiated in every area of his nature-body, soul, spirit-so that he is utterly incapable himself of restoration and salvation. His only hope is in Jesus Christ.

Christinewjc said...

Previous post questions and answers source: Renewal Theology
By Dr. J. Rodman Williams
Theologian

Anna said...

Thomas -

One thing is for sure - there will come a time when we find out who is right. If Christine and other believers are right, we have gained much. If we're wrong (and I don't believe for a second we are), we have lost nothing. On the other hand, if you're wrong, you have lost everything.

By the way, regarding your comment as to your reading the New Testament several times, in a previous post you said you had not read the Book of Romans. In fact, you were starting at Genesis and working your way through.

CrackerLilo said...

Anna writes:


One thing is for sure - there will come a time when we find out who is right. If Christine and other believers are right, we have gained much. If we're wrong (and I don't believe for a second we are), we have lost nothing. On the other hand, if you're wrong, you have lost everything.


Actually, that is called Pascal's Wager, and I can rebut it rather easily.

For many of us, conforming to conservative Christian mores means hiding our sexuality, personality, true interests, and more. This was certainly my experience. (I posted a bit about that here.) So I would be losing a lot in this life if I were to go back to the kind of church I grew up with, starting with my wife and my freedom to question.

Do I really want to give up concrete things I have for things I do not know exist for certain? Isn't that as stupid as using your grocery money for lottery tickets instead of food?

What if I give up those concrete things for the abstracts you're telling me about, and *you're* wrong?

I'd rather at least enjoy my life here on Earth.

Christinewjc said...

Thomas,

God's Word contains a verse that best describes what its view of an atheist is.

Psalm 14:1 (KJV) - [[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.

Next, the Bible tells us two important points about addressing "the fool".

Proverbs 26:4 (KJV) - Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5 (KJV) - Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

These two verses may appear to be in contradiction. But the writer (Solomon)is saying that we shouldn't take a foolish person seriously and try to reason with his empty arguments. This will only make him proud and determined to win the argument. Another point to these verses is that in some situations, I ought not to even try to answer a fool, for there is no way I can penetrate his closed mind. I may, in fact, be stooping to the fool's level if I do choose to answer. The part of the first verse that states, "or you will be like him yourself" warns me that such a fool will most likely abuse me and I will be tempted to abuse him in return. Then, of course, there are other situations where common sense dictates a need to answer in order to expose the fool's pride and folly.

Personally, I often continue to answer for that last reason. Not for my sake, mind you, but for the sake of others who may come to this blog and read. However, there often comes a time when it just makes plain sense to not try and reason with a non-believers empty arguments. This takes spiritual discernment in each encounter and when the time is right, I follow the Spirit's leading.

Why consider not speaking to a fool?

Proverbs 23:9 (KJV) - Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Proverbs 1:22 (KJV) - How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

In the book of Proverbs, a "simple one" or a fool is not someone with a mental deficiency but someone with a character deficiency (such as rebellion, laziness, or anger). The fool is not stupid, but he is unable to tell right from wrong or good from bad.

The book of Proverbs has a clear statement of purpose - to impart wisdom for godly living. All who seek wisdom will greatly benefit from these wise words. It is where one can discover the source of wisdom, the value of wisdom, and the benefits of wisdom.

However, the book is wise to the ways and 'pseudo-wisdom' of man. Proverbs 1:7 sums it up quite well.

Proverbs 1:7 (NIV) - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

In this age of information, knowledge is plentiful but wisdom is scarce. Wisdom means far more than simply knowing a lot. It is a basic attitude that affects every aspect of life. The foundation of knowledge is to fear the Lord - meaning - to honor and respect God, to be in awe of his power, and to obey his Word.

Now look at the warning against rejecting God's wisdom:

Proverbs 1:22 (NIV) "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?"

Notice what Proverbs 1:20-21 (NIV)states:
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech.

The picture of wisdom calling aloud in the streets is a personification to make wisdom come alive for us. Wisdom is not a separate being; it is the mind of God revealed.

You said that you have read the gospels several times. But it appears that you have made the opposite conclusion from what Anna and I did when it comes to answering Jesus' question, "Who do you say that I am?"

Who do you say that Jesus is, Thomas?

By reading about Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, we can see wisdom in action. In order to understand how to become wise, we can listen to wisdom calling and instructing us in the book of Proverbs.

There is so much more that I could share but this is getting long. Perhaps you might want to look up some New Testament calls to wisdom in 2 Timothy 1:7 and James 1:5.

You mentioned that you have read and like the book of Ecclesiastes. Chapter 10 discusses that wisdom is better than folly.

Eccl. 10:12 (KJV) -The words of a wise man's mouth [are] gracious; but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself.


Eccl 10:13 The beginning of the words of his mouth [is] foolishness: and the end of his talk [is] mischievous madness.


Eccl 10:14 A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?


Ecc 10:15 The labour of the foolish wearieth every one of them, because he knoweth not how to go to the city.

Solomon's purpose in writing this book was to spare future generations the bitterness of learning through their own experience that life is meaningless apart from God.

The key verse:

Eccl. 12:13 - "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

My advice? Make sure you don't reject God's offer of wisdom to you.

Christinewjc said...

Hi crackerlillo,

Welcome to my blog. Just wanted to say hi and that I intend to answer your post in more detail later tonight. My post to Thomas was long and I have to get ready for the day.

My daughter and I are going apartment hunting near her college campus. Her good friend didn't make it into the on-campus housing and they really want to room together so we hope to find a place that would be close to the school and not to expensive.

I do not know (yet) what church you used to attend. But I wonder how you would answer the same question I posed to Thomas. That question is from Jesus Christ himself when he asks, "Who do you say that I am?"

Depending on how one answers that question will determine how one looks at Jesus' admonition:

Mar 8:36 - For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Mar 8:37 - Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

CrackerLilo said...

That question is from Jesus Christ himself when he asks, "Who do you say that I am?"

One God among many. I like the brief glimpses I've gotten to see, but I have to say I am much tighter with Athena and La Sirene thus far.

I attended an Assemblies of God church. I had this wonderful feeling of just giving myself over when I first joined it, but I think that what I was overcome by was the strong emotion of a large group rather than any God. I have always been very easily influenced by others' emotions when I see them face to face (do with that what you want).

I wrote this "testimony" of how I became Christian and then Pagan a *long* time ago, in 1997, if you'd like to see it.

My Own Hell to Raise

Wow, I've had another lifetime since then! I no longer date the boy, the girl no longer goes to church, I *married* her...but my impressions of what church was like for me still hold.

Christinewjc said...

There is a lot to respond to in your post and I will probably break up my response by making several posts over the weekend.

First, I'd like to post a link to an essay that reveals just what kind of man Bertrand Russell really was.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/943a_russell_lhl.html

It just goes to show how important it is to know the details about a person before using them to make a point. Especially important when using an evil man's opinions while attempting to refute Jesus Christ.

It is a long essay, but I will quote a portion:

"Let it be understood at the outset of this discussion, that valid discoveries of scientific principle are but a paradigmatic portion of what the term "mental-creative processes" must be understood to signify. With that restriction, it is admissible to focus upon the crucial epistemological features of mathematical physical thinking. That provisional inquiry provides the starting-point for a systematic comprehension of the curiously perverted mental processes of the late Bertrand Russell. This also addresses a much larger, more fundamental issue, the role of transmission of ideas over centuries in shaping the history of the recent six centuries of European and global civilization.

This is of special importance as a prerequisite for understanding the British radical empiricism introduced to Adam Smith, Bentham, and Malthus by Ortes, and the bastard French offshoot of that radicalism, the positivism which emerged over the course of the recent two centuries from the post-Restoration circles of Abbot Moigno's followers. This is indispensable for understanding the systematic evil permeating all of Russell's known work in every field."


Next, here is a link to an essay that refutes the evidentialist challenge to religion.

http://www.arsdisputandi.org/publish/articles/000132/index.html

Next, here is an essay that compares Theism vs. Atheism which defends the fact that it is more reasonable to be a theist than it is to be an atheist.


http://www.biblicaldefense.org/Research_Center/Debates/debate1.htm

I especially appreciated these important questions stated near the end of the essay:

"From molecules in motion will never come moral values or the laws of logic. From a mound of dirt, a single thought will never be produced - no matter how much time is given. If no God exists and all we are is molecules in motion, from whence come human rights? If an innocent child is merely a random collection of atoms, can we really say that it is wrong to crush him? If there is no life after death and all we face is everlasting extinction, can this life really have meaning? What counsel can an atheist offer a suffering friend on his deathbed? Can we climb above despair if all we face is extinction? When the universe dies, all will die with it. If atheism is true, then human experience is a cruel joke. And, if life is a cruel joke, then why even bother to debate?"

In my next post, I will proceed to answer your questions/concerns about what Jesus said and why he said them during his earthly ministry.

Christinewjc said...

Looks like the links didn't post properly. I need to learn how to link the way that you did in your post!


http://www.arsdisputandi.org/
publish/articles/000132/
index.html

http://www.biblicaldefense.org/
Research_Center/Debates/
debate1.htm

Christinewjc said...

Here's another great essay on "What Is Truth".

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/
groothuis-truth.html

This is a great lead-in to my next post about Jesus Christ.

Anna said...

Thomas -

For some time now, I've been both reading and posting on this blog and Stephen's blog. My question is: what are you looking for? There are any number of people who travel around the world and debate in various forums on the opinions you express here. They would be happy to engage you in debate. One who stands out in my mind is Ravi Zacharias. He is from India and well versed in most of the world religions. Why waste your time with this group? Again, what is it you are looking for here?

Church, religion, belief in God - what is it all about? Christians -who are they? Many people want to pigeonhole others into little boxes so they can understand them based on their own paradigm. It doesn't work. You are talking religion/philosophy. We are talking relationship with Jesus Christ.

You claimed to have read the New Testament through a number of times and was called on it. You then noted you had read only the Gospels - but actually admitted only reading portions because you considered some to be redundant.
When Biblical texts are quoted and explained within their proper context, off on a rabbit trail you go.

The Bible is God's revelation to man of who He is, His character, and His plan for His people. You cannot understand it unless you ask God and have a heart willing to hear the truth. Christians understand that and have opened their hearts to a relationship not a religion.

The Church, the Church, the Church. The Church is not a building, but all those who have a relationship with Christ. I've been to some of those buildings, which people object to and where they have been mistreated. What they've missed is God wasn't welcome there either.

If you have the heart, ask questions and receive answers. You don't need to like to accept the answers, but don't try to make the Bible out to be something it is not.

Many Christians have left lifestyles, which were destructive in nature and found true peace and joy in Christ. Others have come to know Christ at a young age and found Him faithful throughout life. Stephen has found freedom in Christ. He could easily go on and live a quiet, happy life. However, he puts up with all the insults, threats, lies and other garbage people throw at him because he has a passion for those who are without hope and believe they have no escape.

You've said the only reason you still come here is because Christians keep evangelizing. Well, if you don't want to hear it, don't expose yourself to it.

Believe in God or not, dislike Christians and the Bible or not, but don't harden your heart. Hear people out then take some time to research it honestly. Try reading other materials that may explain away some of your confusion and questions. It's not easy to do, but you may be surprised at what you find out. At worst, you will have read some interesting material.

So, Thomas, what are you looking for here? If you want us to say everything is cool just go on the way you are, we can't and won't. It would be a lie and would only hurt you. We care deeply what happens to you and will continue to pray for you.

Anna

Christinewjc said...

thomas: "The stuff coming out of the Schiller Institute is too bizarre to take seriously."

I could say the same thing about Russell and his bizarre ideology. Just the title of LaRouche's article says it all anyway. Russell is an evil man. We need not go any further but to the Bible to define and identify who would rank as an evil man. Based on the rest of your posts I see that it would be a waste of time to point them out. If one comes from the worldview that the Bible is not truth and doesn't intend to seek out the matter to the fullest (i.e. read and study it instead of picking out piecemeal verses to disparage) then I must remember the Proverb verses on how to deal with fools.

Perhaps you missed the following which explains what the term "fool" means in Scripture:

"In the book of Proverbs, a "simple one" or a fool is not someone with a mental deficiency but someone with a character deficiency (such as rebellion, laziness, or anger). The fool is not stupid, but he is unable to tell right from wrong or good from bad."

Notice how it describes a fool as someone with a CHARACTER deficiency. This is crucial to understanding why you believe as you do. Many people think that the term "fool" here means stupid. In fact, many are highly intelligent! It is often their intellect that gets in the way of their ability to turn to faith in Christ. They fight it with every ounce of their being and every argument from man's wisdom that is under the sun. We all have faith is certain things and/or people while on this earth. If we didn't, we couldn't survive. We all have a built-in notion of right and wrong, but this can get skewed by humanistic influences so that the concept of "good is labeled as evil and evil is labeled as good."

Isaiah 5:20 (NLT) - Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil; that dark is light and light is dark; that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

Where do we go to find out what is good and what is evil? The laws of God. We can't pick and choose which ones we want to relativize and obey and which ones we don't. Just like according to laws on the books in society, a person can't just pick and choose which ones to obey and not obey. Break the law? Pay the consequences.

But in God's mercy, our Supreme Judge of the universe took off his robe and placed himself in our place to pay the consequence of our sin. This is Christianity's answer to the sin problem. What is the secular humanistic answer to solve the sin problem? Is there one? Do they work? If not, why not?

I know that what I am sharing here is probably considered silly and/or a myth by you, but if you researched the matter further, you could draw a different conclusion. I continue to post answers for the sake of others who come by and read. They will see your worldview vs. the Christian worldview and make their own decision as to the correct answers.

Many likeminded individuals such as yourself often see the God of the Old Testament as barbaric and view what the Scriptures record as horrific. You make a common error of most skeptics. You assume that the Bible approves of everything that it records. The Bible records the errors and sins of mankind. It is a book of truth which doesn't gloss over the deceitful hearts of mankind within its pages. You are aware of God's solution to man's ignorant decision to learn and do evil and thus sin against God by doing so. The sacrificial crucifixion, death and resurrection of his Son, Jesus Christ. A truly just God doesn't allow sin and evil to go unpunished. God provides the Savior to take that punishment in order to appease his righteous anger while at the same time giving his Son the glory of adopting those who believe in him into the family of God. This is that amazing grace that you do not recognize as being what it is...forgiveness, reconciliation, mercy extended with a lifetime hope and guarantee of eternal life with God.

Yes. This is silliness to you. Childish even? Jesus stated that we must become Child like (notice, NOT childish...very different) in order to see the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18:3 (NLT) - Then he said, "I assure you, unless you turn from your sins and become as little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 18:4 (NLT) - Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Did you see that? Each person needs to humble themselves as a little child. What this means is to trust. A child trusts the loving adults around him/her because he/she KNOWS the love offered to him/her. Not knowing the love of God, people often allow pride, sin, fear, hate, suffering, stubbornness, lack of faith, fear of death etc. to overtake them and not allow God's provision for salvation to enter into their lives.

Life's Journey was probably correct. I am probably wasting time to share all of this with you. Those who have the goal(s) as you described that you have are not open and receptive to the Gospel message; they are intent on destroying it. Through your mind's eye steeped in deception, you see your intent as "good" and Bible believing followers of Christ as "evil".


Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!


Isa 5:22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink

Isa 5:23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.


Finally, I would recommend that you read Hebrews 11.

The first few verses define what faith is and the hope that is in us.



Great Examples of Faith
What is faith? It is the confident assurance that what we hope for is going to happen. It is the evidence of things we cannot yet see. 2 God gave his approval to people in days of old because of their faith.
3 By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.

God has given people the free will choice to put their faith into anything or Anyone that they choose to. For me, Jesus Christ is the only one worthy of trusting and I place my faith unconditionally into His Hands for all eternity. For only He is Worthy. Every knee shall bow before him one day, either willingly or unwillingly.

Romans 14:11 - For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.


Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.




Revelation 5 (NLT)

The Lamb Opens the Scroll
And I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne. There was writing on the inside and the outside of the scroll, and it was sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel, who shouted with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to break the seals on this scroll and unroll it?" 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.
4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it. 5 But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, "Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne,* has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals."
6 I looked and I saw a Lamb that had been killed but was now standing between the throne and the four living beings and among the twenty-four elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits* of God that are sent out into every part of the earth. 7 He stepped forward and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne. 8 And as he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they held gold bowls filled with incense-the prayers of God's people!
9 And they sang a new song with these words:


"You are worthy to take the scroll
and break its seals and open it.
For you were killed, and your blood has ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10
And you have caused them to become God's Kingdom and his priests.
And they will reign* on the earth."


11 Then I looked again, and I heard the singing of thousands and millions of angels around the throne and the living beings and the elders. 12 And they sang in a mighty chorus:


"The Lamb is worthy-the Lamb who was killed.
He is worthy to receive power and riches
and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and blessing."


13 And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They also sang:


"Blessing and honor and glory and power
belong to the one sitting on the throne
and to the Lamb forever and ever."


14 And the four living beings said, "Amen!" And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb.


Footnotes:
5:5 Greek the root of David.
5:6 See note on 4:5.
5:10 Some manuscripts read they are reigning.

Revelation 22:12-17

12 "See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay all according to their deeds. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."


14 Blessed are those who wash their robes so they can enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. 15 Outside the city are the dogs-the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.


16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne.* I am the bright morning star."


17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let each one who hears them say, "Come." Let the thirsty ones come-anyone who wants to. Let them come and drink the water of life without charge.

Christinewjc said...

Hello Life's Journey,

Welcome to my blog! I can understand your feeling the way you do about my conversing with Thomas. Yes. There is always hope that the unsaved will come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Then, there are those who will fight it till the very end and die without Christ as their Savior and Lord. Since we do not know how far our influence in sharing the Gospel can go for each individual, we must continue to share even when outrightly rejected by the other person. Of course there is a proper time to "leave that house and shake the dust off of one's sandals." This is an allegorical statement designed to indicate that when all that can be said and done has been unequivocably rejected, it is time to leave our efforts behind. At that point, we can only pray for them. Even when reaching this point with Thomas I feel that God's Word never returns void. There may be someone coming to read this blog one day whose eyes will be opened by the exchange going on here and they may be motivated to seek out the claims of Jesus Christ and God's Word, the Bible. It is for those people who will be blessed by such an exchange, that I continue to post despite the hardened heart and rejection continually being displayed by Thomas.

Again, welcome to the board and hope you will visit often!

God bless you,
Christine