Showing posts with label Jehovah's Witnesses. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jehovah's Witnesses. Show all posts

Saturday, October 26, 2013

Sharing the Triune Nature of God


HT:  james2.com


Late yesterday morning while walking my dogs back to our home, I found a man with a shoulder sack and his daughter standing at my front door.  I thought, "Let me guess...either they are Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons!"  Well, I was correct.  They were Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's). 

The man said, "Hello, my daughter would like to offer you some information."  Next, the little girl (I would guess she was around 8 years old) started talking about the Watch Tower pamphlets in her hands.  I politely listened to what she had to say,  knowing that I would not be taking the pamphlets.  However, I told her that I was very impressed with how well she briefly articulated what the pamphlets contain.

I have learned over the years that it is best to "cut to the chase" when speaking with JW's.  I looked at her father and stated that I had shared the company of a lovely woman named Teresa back in the 1990's.  She came to my door in her wheelchair, and I didn't have the heart to turn her away.  However, after several weeks of visits, we ended up parting ways when her faith teaching rejected the reality of our triune God. 

The man instantly knew who I was talking about!  This has been a typical reaction of the JW's with whom I have had encounters over the years.  They all know each other!  Teresa T.  had passed away many years ago.  The man said he knows of her legacy and he knows her husband.

I stated that Teresa had taught me a lot about the Old Testament Scriptures.  However, when the subject of the Trinity came up it was obvious that we had strong disagreement.  I added that Matthew 28:19 tells us that Jesus specifically stated that we are to go and make disciples, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  The original language in Aramaic reveals that Jesus used the singular version of "name."  He didn't say, 'in the names.'  Therefore, we have evidence of the Triune nature of God.  The fact that Jesus used the terms "and of the Son; and of the Holy Spirit" separately from his reference to God the Father reiterates that they are three Persons in one Godhead.



“Go therefore fn and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(28:19) M-Text omits therefore.


The Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that believing in the Trinity is paganism.  They do not agree with the concept that God can be three Persons in One.  They think that believing in the triune nature of God is believing in three different gods.

Interestingly enough, the man pulled out his cell phone and went to an app for JW's.  He checked the concordance-like site and agreed that Jesus did use the singular term "name" in the Matthew 28:19 verse.  But he then added that the JW's have an explanation for that.

I briefly told him of my journey from Catholicism to becoming a born again Christian.  Then, I told him that I have been a student of Bible study for over 25 years.  He said that he has studied [his version] of the Bible for many years and appreciates meeting Christians who have done the same.

We both knew that we would not end up studying together.  But I urged him to seek out more information regarding the triune nature of God.  I encouraged him to do a computer search for D. James Kennedy's expose' on the Trinity.  It's a classic!  I also shared that there is scientific evidence of the triune nature of God within Creation. 

Talk Wisdom's previous posts about this topic:

Understanding the Trinity

The Trinity All Around You

Excerpt:


In Dr. D. James Kennedy's booklet entitled "Understanding the Trinity; Evidence for God in Three Persons," Dr. Kennedy describes that the universe itself explains the Trinity.

Dr. Nathan Wood, formerly president of Gordon College of Theology and Missions, wrote a magnificent book, The Secret of the Universe. In it he spells out for us the result of years of searching in the natural realm for some kind of analogy that was correct for the Trinity. He finally came up with the universe itself.

It is so simple.

It is right there in front of us.

We can never get away from it.

It is always there.

We ought to see it very clearly.

He points out that any man who manufactures anything or makes anything with his hands is going to inevitably leave his fingerprints upon it. If you were to create a table or chair or something in your workshop, it would contain your fingerprints.

Dr. Wood says that the universe is covered with fingerprints of the Trinity because it was made by the Triune God. The Bible says that the Father created the universe, the Son created the universe, and the Holy Spirit created the universe - the Triune God created the universe.

What does Dr. Wood mean by that?

Well, there are fingerprints everywhere. We just don't see them.

I would suppose that there are literally millions of fingerprints in this very sanctuary. Did you see any today? Not a one. We are blind as a bat when it comes to fingerprints. We just don't see them. First of all, we're not looking for them. Now you might see them at home on a mirror or something like that, but ordinarily, we don't see fingerprints. However, if a detective were to come in here and begin to dust the wood on the pew in front of you, he would find thousands of them. So let's put on our Sherlock Holmes cap, get out our dusting brush, and see if we can see the fingerprints of Him who made all things.

What does the universe consist of?

If you were to ask a scientist, he would tell you it consists of space, time, and matter. Now amazing to tell, we find all of those three things everywhere in the universe - not that we have a universe where some of them exist sometimes and not at other times. It is also true that each of the triune parts of the universe is, in itself, triune.

SPACE

Let us look at each one of them. For example, consider space. What is space composed of? It is composed of length and breadth and height. Always. There is nothing you could name that is not composed of all three of those things. If you were to simply take a pencil and draw a line on a piece of paper, it would have length, it would have a little bit of width, and if you looked in a powerful microscope, you would discover it has quite a bit of height. You can't see it with your naked eye; however, it's always there.

Something that I think is amazing about this is that God always consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - not one or the other. It is not a piece of the pie; it's the whole thing, always. Imagine a square block that a child would play with. Draw a picture of it in three dimensions. Then you could take that picture, and with a pencil and using all length, you could make a bunch of lines and fill in that entire block with nothing but length. I have done that sometimes in fancy lettering. Maybe some of you have as well. Or you could take the same block and make the whole thing out of width, or out of height. The fact of the matter is that it is all length, it's all breadth, it's all height all of the time. That's a perfect illustration of the Trinity.

TIME

Or take the matter of time. Of what does time consist? Obviously, it consists of the past, the present, and the future - those three. Any time we have ever known in this universe always consists of those three. Usually we have the idea that we come out of the past, that that really is first, because that is where we came from. The fact of the matter is, time comes from the future, and we meet it head on.

For example, today, yesterday was called tomorrow, and now it's today. A week ago it was called next week, and now it is today. A year ago, it was called next year. So as time approaches us and we move through it, that is what always happens. Anything is first in the future, then in the present, and then it disappears into the past. That is the way time always works. That in itself is an amazing story when you examine it carefully. Past, present, and future.

Dr. Nathan R. Wood gives a fascinating quote that is so remarkable I would like to share it with you. I would challenge you to try to see if you can follow his drift.

He is going to give a long paragraph. Then he is going to give it again, only this time he is simply going to change four words. These four words are "time," "future," "present," and "past". They are going to be changed into "God," "Father," "Son," and "Holy Spirit."

You are going to find out something some of you never knew before - that time, which you live by, which you look at constantly in the way of clocks you wind up every day, and which you make your lives run by, is an incredible illustration of the divine Trinity.

(Note: To make this paragraph easier to read, I will post it in a prose format).


Read carefully:

"The Future is the source.

The Future is unseen, unknown, except as it continually embodies itself and makes itself visible in the Present.

The Present is what we see, and hear, and know.

It is ceaselessly embodying the Future, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment. It is perpetually revealing the Future, hitherto invisible.

The Future is logically first, but not chronologically.

For the Present exists as long as Time exists and was in the absolute beginning of Time.

The Present has existed as long as Time has existed.

Time acts through and in the Present.

It makes itself visible only in the Present.

The Future acts and reveals itself through the Present.

It is through the Present that Time, that the Future, enters into union with human life.

Time and humanity meet and unite in the Present.

It is the Present that Time, that the Future, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Past in turn comes from the Present.

We cannot say that it embodies the Present.

On the contrary, Time in issuing from the Present into the Past becomes invisible again.

The Past does not embody the Present. Rather it proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from it...

The Present therefore comes out from the invisible Future.

The Present perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Future in visible, audible, livable form; and returns again into invisible Time in the Past.

The Past acts invisibly.

It continually influences us with regard to the Present.

It casts light upon the Present.

That is its great function.

It helps us to live in the Present which we know, and with reference to the Future which we expect to see.

"That is an exact description of the way time operates. It is a perfect analogy. I'm using "analogy" not in the common sense of the word that something is like something or a simile or metaphor, but in the mathematical meaning of the word, which means it is an exact replica as far as every line, every angle, every corner is concerned.

SUBSTITUTE FOUR WORDS

Now let us replace the words. "Time" is replaced by "God"; the "Future" by the "Father"; the "Present" by the "Son"; and the "Past" by the "Holy Spirit" (every word the same but these four). You will see that perfect analogy and you will see the divine Trinity you have been swimming in all of your life!

"The Father is the source [every word the same, but those four].

The Father is unseen except as he continually embodies Himself and makes Himself visible in the Son.

The Son is what we see, and hear, and know.

He is ceaselessly embodying the Father, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment.

He is perpetually revealing the Father, hitherto invisible.

The Father is logically first, but not chronologically, For the Son exists as long as God exists, and was in the absolute beginning of God.

The Son has existed as long as God has existed.

God acts through and in the Son.

He makes Himself visible only in the Son.

The Father acts and reveals Himself through the Son.

It is through the Son that God, that the Father, enters into union with human life.

God and humanity meet and unite in the Son.

It is in the Son that God, that the Father, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Spirit in turn comes from the Son.

We cannot say that He embodies the Son.

On the contrary God, in issuing from the Son into the Spirit, becomes invisible again.

The Spirit does not embody the Son.

Rather He proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from Him...

The Son therefore comes out from the invisible Father.

The Son perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Father in visible, audible, livable form, and returns into invisible God in the Spirit.

The Spirit acts invisibly.

He continually influences us with regard to the Son.

He casts light upon the Son.

That is His great function.

He helps us to live in the Son whom we know and with reference to the Father whom we expect to see."

That, my friends, is an exact mathematical analogy that each of the portions of the triunity of the universe are in themselves triune."

Our Creator is so awesome!! He reveals Himself all around us....in the existence of the universe He created!


*******

What We Believe...

*  About God:
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe.  He has eternally existed in three persons:  the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  These three are co-equal and are one God.
 
Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:22; Psalms 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
 
 
 
* About Jesus Christ:
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  He is co-equal with the Father.  Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all by dying on a cross.  He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death.  He ascended to Heavens glory and will return again, to earth, to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
 
Matthew 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14, 15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13
 

 

 

 
*About The Holy Spirit:
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son of God.  He is present in the world to make mankind aware of our need for Jesus Christ.  He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation.  He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual gifts, and guidance in doing what is right.  The Christian's responsibility is to seek and to live under His will daily.
 
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Sharing the Triune Nature of God


HT:  james2.com


Late yesterday morning while walking my dogs back to our home, I found a man with a shoulder sack and his daughter standing at my front door.  I thought, "Let me guess...either they are Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons!"  Well, I was correct.  They were Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's). 

The man said, "Hello, my daughter would like to offer you some information."  Next, the little girl (I would guess she was around 8 years old) started talking about the Watch Tower pamphlets in her hands.  I politely listened to what she had to say,  knowing that I would not be taking the pamphlets.  However, I told her that I was very impressed with how well she briefly articulated what the pamphlets contain.

I have learned over the years that it is best to "cut to the chase" when speaking with JW's.  I looked at her father and stated that I had shared the company of a lovely woman named Teresa back in the 1990's.  She came to my door in her wheelchair, and I didn't have the heart to turn her away.  However, after several weeks of visits, we ended up parting ways when her faith teaching rejected the reality of our triune God. 

The man instantly knew who I was talking about!  This has been a typical reaction of the JW's with whom I have had encounters over the years.  They all know each other!  Teresa T.  had passed away many years ago.  The man said he knows of her legacy and he knows her husband.

I stated that Teresa had taught me a lot about the Old Testament Scriptures.  However, when the subject of the Trinity came up it was obvious that we had strong disagreement.  I added that Matthew 28:19 tells us that Jesus specifically stated that we are to go and make disciples, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  The original language in Aramaic reveals that Jesus used the singular version of "name."  He didn't say, 'in the names.'  Therefore, we have evidence of the Triune nature of God.  The fact that Jesus used the terms "and of the Son; and of the Holy Spirit" separately from his reference to God the Father reiterates that they are three Persons in one Godhead.



“Go therefore fn and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(28:19) M-Text omits therefore.


The Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that believing in the Trinity is paganism.  They do not agree with the concept that God can be three Persons in One.  They think that believing in the triune nature of God is believing in three different gods.

Interestingly enough, the man pulled out his cell phone and went to an app for JW's.  He checked the concordance-like site and agreed that Jesus did use the singular term "name" in the Matthew 28:19 verse.  But he then added that the JW's have an explanation for that.

I briefly told him of my journey from Catholicism to becoming a born again Christian.  Then, I told him that I have been a student of Bible study for over 25 years.  He said that he has studied [his version] of the Bible for many years and appreciates meeting Christians who have done the same.

We both knew that we would not end up studying together.  But I urged him to seek out more information regarding the triune nature of God.  I encouraged him to do a computer search for D. James Kennedy's expose' on the Trinity.  It's a classic!  I also shared that there is scientific evidence of the triune nature of God within Creation. 

Talk Wisdom's previous posts about this topic:

Understanding the Trinity

The Trinity All Around You

Excerpt:


In Dr. D. James Kennedy's booklet entitled "Understanding the Trinity; Evidence for God in Three Persons," Dr. Kennedy describes that the universe itself explains the Trinity.

Dr. Nathan Wood, formerly president of Gordon College of Theology and Missions, wrote a magnificent book, The Secret of the Universe. In it he spells out for us the result of years of searching in the natural realm for some kind of analogy that was correct for the Trinity. He finally came up with the universe itself.

It is so simple.

It is right there in front of us.

We can never get away from it.

It is always there.

We ought to see it very clearly.

He points out that any man who manufactures anything or makes anything with his hands is going to inevitably leave his fingerprints upon it. If you were to create a table or chair or something in your workshop, it would contain your fingerprints.

Dr. Wood says that the universe is covered with fingerprints of the Trinity because it was made by the Triune God. The Bible says that the Father created the universe, the Son created the universe, and the Holy Spirit created the universe - the Triune God created the universe.

What does Dr. Wood mean by that?

Well, there are fingerprints everywhere. We just don't see them.

I would suppose that there are literally millions of fingerprints in this very sanctuary. Did you see any today? Not a one. We are blind as a bat when it comes to fingerprints. We just don't see them. First of all, we're not looking for them. Now you might see them at home on a mirror or something like that, but ordinarily, we don't see fingerprints. However, if a detective were to come in here and begin to dust the wood on the pew in front of you, he would find thousands of them. So let's put on our Sherlock Holmes cap, get out our dusting brush, and see if we can see the fingerprints of Him who made all things.

What does the universe consist of?

If you were to ask a scientist, he would tell you it consists of space, time, and matter. Now amazing to tell, we find all of those three things everywhere in the universe - not that we have a universe where some of them exist sometimes and not at other times. It is also true that each of the triune parts of the universe is, in itself, triune.

SPACE

Let us look at each one of them. For example, consider space. What is space composed of? It is composed of length and breadth and height. Always. There is nothing you could name that is not composed of all three of those things. If you were to simply take a pencil and draw a line on a piece of paper, it would have length, it would have a little bit of width, and if you looked in a powerful microscope, you would discover it has quite a bit of height. You can't see it with your naked eye; however, it's always there.

Something that I think is amazing about this is that God always consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - not one or the other. It is not a piece of the pie; it's the whole thing, always. Imagine a square block that a child would play with. Draw a picture of it in three dimensions. Then you could take that picture, and with a pencil and using all length, you could make a bunch of lines and fill in that entire block with nothing but length. I have done that sometimes in fancy lettering. Maybe some of you have as well. Or you could take the same block and make the whole thing out of width, or out of height. The fact of the matter is that it is all length, it's all breadth, it's all height all of the time. That's a perfect illustration of the Trinity.

TIME

Or take the matter of time. Of what does time consist? Obviously, it consists of the past, the present, and the future - those three. Any time we have ever known in this universe always consists of those three. Usually we have the idea that we come out of the past, that that really is first, because that is where we came from. The fact of the matter is, time comes from the future, and we meet it head on.

For example, today, yesterday was called tomorrow, and now it's today. A week ago it was called next week, and now it is today. A year ago, it was called next year. So as time approaches us and we move through it, that is what always happens. Anything is first in the future, then in the present, and then it disappears into the past. That is the way time always works. That in itself is an amazing story when you examine it carefully. Past, present, and future.

Dr. Nathan R. Wood gives a fascinating quote that is so remarkable I would like to share it with you. I would challenge you to try to see if you can follow his drift.

He is going to give a long paragraph. Then he is going to give it again, only this time he is simply going to change four words. These four words are "time," "future," "present," and "past". They are going to be changed into "God," "Father," "Son," and "Holy Spirit."

You are going to find out something some of you never knew before - that time, which you live by, which you look at constantly in the way of clocks you wind up every day, and which you make your lives run by, is an incredible illustration of the divine Trinity.

(Note: To make this paragraph easier to read, I will post it in a prose format).


Read carefully:

"The Future is the source.

The Future is unseen, unknown, except as it continually embodies itself and makes itself visible in the Present.

The Present is what we see, and hear, and know.

It is ceaselessly embodying the Future, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment. It is perpetually revealing the Future, hitherto invisible.

The Future is logically first, but not chronologically.

For the Present exists as long as Time exists and was in the absolute beginning of Time.

The Present has existed as long as Time has existed.

Time acts through and in the Present.

It makes itself visible only in the Present.

The Future acts and reveals itself through the Present.

It is through the Present that Time, that the Future, enters into union with human life.

Time and humanity meet and unite in the Present.

It is the Present that Time, that the Future, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Past in turn comes from the Present.

We cannot say that it embodies the Present.

On the contrary, Time in issuing from the Present into the Past becomes invisible again.

The Past does not embody the Present. Rather it proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from it...

The Present therefore comes out from the invisible Future.

The Present perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Future in visible, audible, livable form; and returns again into invisible Time in the Past.

The Past acts invisibly.

It continually influences us with regard to the Present.

It casts light upon the Present.

That is its great function.

It helps us to live in the Present which we know, and with reference to the Future which we expect to see.

"That is an exact description of the way time operates. It is a perfect analogy. I'm using "analogy" not in the common sense of the word that something is like something or a simile or metaphor, but in the mathematical meaning of the word, which means it is an exact replica as far as every line, every angle, every corner is concerned.

SUBSTITUTE FOUR WORDS

Now let us replace the words. "Time" is replaced by "God"; the "Future" by the "Father"; the "Present" by the "Son"; and the "Past" by the "Holy Spirit" (every word the same but these four). You will see that perfect analogy and you will see the divine Trinity you have been swimming in all of your life!

"The Father is the source [every word the same, but those four].

The Father is unseen except as he continually embodies Himself and makes Himself visible in the Son.

The Son is what we see, and hear, and know.

He is ceaselessly embodying the Father, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment.

He is perpetually revealing the Father, hitherto invisible.

The Father is logically first, but not chronologically, For the Son exists as long as God exists, and was in the absolute beginning of God.

The Son has existed as long as God has existed.

God acts through and in the Son.

He makes Himself visible only in the Son.

The Father acts and reveals Himself through the Son.

It is through the Son that God, that the Father, enters into union with human life.

God and humanity meet and unite in the Son.

It is in the Son that God, that the Father, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Spirit in turn comes from the Son.

We cannot say that He embodies the Son.

On the contrary God, in issuing from the Son into the Spirit, becomes invisible again.

The Spirit does not embody the Son.

Rather He proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from Him...

The Son therefore comes out from the invisible Father.

The Son perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Father in visible, audible, livable form, and returns into invisible God in the Spirit.

The Spirit acts invisibly.

He continually influences us with regard to the Son.

He casts light upon the Son.

That is His great function.

He helps us to live in the Son whom we know and with reference to the Father whom we expect to see."

That, my friends, is an exact mathematical analogy that each of the portions of the triunity of the universe are in themselves triune."

Our Creator is so awesome!! He reveals Himself all around us....in the existence of the universe He created!


*******

What We Believe...

*  About God:
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe.  He has eternally existed in three persons:  the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  These three are co-equal and are one God.
 
Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:22; Psalms 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
 
 
 
* About Jesus Christ:
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  He is co-equal with the Father.  Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all by dying on a cross.  He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death.  He ascended to Heavens glory and will return again, to earth, to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
 
Matthew 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14, 15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13
 

 

 

 
*About The Holy Spirit:
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son of God.  He is present in the world to make mankind aware of our need for Jesus Christ.  He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation.  He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual gifts, and guidance in doing what is right.  The Christian's responsibility is to seek and to live under His will daily.
 
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Thursday, December 27, 2012

The Angel of the Lord in Old Testament

A few weeks ago, I had a long conversation with some Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) who were canvassing my block.  We had an interesting conversation.  I knew that as a group, they are told not to vote so I asked them if they were happy that BHO was re-elected.  Many of them said "no," but....and then went on to share why they don't vote and why we must honor those who are elected to office.

Honor? I said in disbelief! 

When I asked them if the German people should have "honored" a murdering tyrant like Hitler who killed 6 million Jews, as well as millions more (including Christians); they really didn't have a good answer.  When I pressed them about why their organization forbids them to vote, one young lady answered, "because Jesus wasn't political."

Well...THAT'S because He is the Son of God!  He had to be about the business of His Father in heaven.  Does that mean that as believers and followers of Christ we should not be involved in politics?  Simple answer:  NO!

Prior to that brief discussion about politics, I asked them two pertinent questions that negate their organization's beliefs and might challenge their adherence to their religion.

First, I pointed out that when Jesus taught the disciples to pray and baptize new converts, he told them to:



Mat 28:19   "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


Mat 28:20   "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen. [fn]


I asked them why the term "name" is in the singular?  No one answered so I went on to explain that JW's are in error when they claim that Christians who believe in the Trinity are "worshipping three gods."  I explained that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "three persons in one God."  The term "trinity" isn't in the Bible, but it is man's way of describing the concept of  "three persons in one God." 

It is important to recognize what Jesus said the Matthew verses.  They were all stated after he was resurrected!

 Note the preceding verses:



Mat 28:16   Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.

Mat 28:17   When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

Mat 28:18   And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.


During his three year ministry on earth, Jesus claimed that he and the Father are one.  This fact answers why "all authority has been given to Him in heaven and on earth."  Jesus is God!!  He humbled himself and became man for our sakes - and for our redemption and salvation.

Notice that even though the resurrected Jesus stood before the disciples - some doubted.  This is an indication that even though people actually witnessed Jesus' resurrection from the dead - some still doubted.

Fast forward to today. There are millions of people who refuse to recognize Jesus as Lord - even some who would consider themselves to be in a "Christian" religion. Many are known as being liberal while adhering to the cross less gospel. Others are cults (various forms of heresy) that skew what is written in the Bible for their own purposes. This is why it is IMPERATIVE that you read and study the Bible for yourself - so that you can recognize the errors of cults, heresies, and the cross less gospel liberals who would steer you away from the One True God, His Word - the Bible, and His Living Word - Jesus Christ.

Back to the JW's.

I asked them who they thought was the "Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament.  I gave an example saying, "who was it that Jacob wrestled with."  One answered, "that's Michael."  So I quizzed them further and shared that whenever the term "angel" was used in the Old Testament, most Bible scholars agree that it was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. 

Here is  one example:

Gen 48:16 The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."

Only God can redeem people from evil!

Two excellent websites that share more information about this:

Lamb and Lion Ministries: The Angel of the Lord His Identity, Manifestations, and Roles

Reformation Online: Christ in the Old Testament

The JW's claimed that it was Michael who appeared as the "angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament. 

I encouraged the JW's who chatted with me outside on my street (I was walking my dogs at the time) to do some research into these differences and not to rely on what any religious leader might say.  We all need to seek the truth from God's Word before accepting what any man might tell us.  In fact, any pastor who is genuine and biblically oriented will tell his congregation to research the Bible for the truth regarding any topic that he preaches on.   Pastors can make mistakes because they are human.  However, when a "mistake" is monumental (like the example below), then it is very important to discover whether or not such a pastor is trustworthy in the future.

I told them the story about a pastor who wrote a hugely popular book a few years back (Rick Warren:  Purpose Driven Life) and how during a Bible study leader meeting, a video was shown where Rick Warren discussed the upcoming "Purpose Driven Life" Bible study series.  At one crucial point in the video, Warren completely left out the need to repent of our sins before accepting Jesus Christ into our hearts as Lord and Savior!  I told them how alarming that was for me and two other women at the leader's Bible study meeting!

I don't know if my concerns about the  JW religion fell upon deaf ears or not, but I hope that they will consider what I said and do some necessary research on sound doctrine to find out the truth.

Hat Tips to all links.
Blue Letter Bible

Friday, April 04, 2008

Susan Smith's Newsletter

Susan Smith is Talk Wisdom's guest blogger today. The following is a copy of her April 5, 2008 newsletter which is emailed each week to subscribers. In this edition, Susan discusses many important facts about Christian faith, including how the Holy Spirit works in our lives; how Scripture leads us in truth; that the kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness, peace and joy; that it takes time to mature in our faith; and the importance of deliverance from sin for salvation. Lastly, she describes what transpired during a recent encounter over Easter weekend with two female Jehovah's Witnesses.

Read, enjoy and be blessed!

Christine

*******

Last week we talked about seeing God’s glory. The Holy Spirit often seems elusive. There are times when the Holy Spirit is working powerfully in our lives and it seems indefinable and mysterious. Often it is “after the fact” that we learn it was God all along who was molding and making us as the potter molds and makes the clay. The Lord does not hide truth from us, He hides truth FOR us! His desire is for us to seek His kingdom first.

The kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (ROM 14:17). The kingdom of God “consists in justice and peace and joy—and all in the atmosphere of the Holy Spirit” according to William Barclay’s translation. All scripture is divinely inspired and is useful for teaching the truth, for refutation of error, moral correction and for training in the good life (2TIM 3:16). It does not matter what translation of the Holy Bible you read. God’s written Word is true.

What a blessing we have here in the United States where multiple translations of the written Word of God are available. Who imagined even fifty years ago that these translations would be available all over the world today via the Internet? God does amazing things with the Internet. There are web sites and Christian blogs that are proclaiming God’s Word and His glory throughout the world every minute of every day. Jesus said “I will build my church” (MAT 16:18) and He is doing just that. The Lord is building His church His way and this is happening with or without you or me. Praise His Name!

There have been occasions when my flesh has puffed up with pride when others tell me I have a powerful testimony. Nothing good dwells in my flesh (ROM 7:18). Spiritual pride is a very dangerous sin. Can you grasp this? When anyone is set free from sin, then that person must accept by faith that he or she has become a slave to righteousness (ROM 6:18). God has made Jesus our wisdom, our goodness, our way to holiness and our liberation...to ensure if anyone is proud, he must be proud of what the Lord has done for him and if we boast, then we are to boast in the Lord (1CO 1:30-31). It is so easy to ignore this scripture especially right after one has been delivered from a specific sin.

Deliverance or salvation from sexual sin or drunkenness is not a greater miracle of God than deliverance from gossip, slander, angry outbursts, jealousy, envy, hatred or any other fleshly sin (GAL 5:20-21). Do you understand? Salvation from the power of any specific sin does not assure spiritual maturity. There is no guarantee of spiritual maturity just because the power of God has delivered you from some explicit sin. I have seen spiritual immaturity in my life many times since the Lord delivered me from homosexuality and drunkenness. Deliverance from fleshly sin is only the beginning of abundant life in Christ!

We grow in our knowledge of God and the Messiah (JOH 17:3) just as we grow in physical maturity from childhood to adulthood. Are you growing in spiritual maturity today? Spiritual growth is not always at the same speed and sometimes it is in the wrong direction. Knowledge of God and the Way we must walk come little by little, precept must be upon precept (ISA 28:10). There is a definite order in which we grow, because God is not the author of confusion (1CO 14:33). The Lord will not show us the next step until we have obeyed all He has given us today.

We should not expect ourselves to have a maturity beyond our years nor should we expect those younger than we are to have our maturity. We are without understanding and we are not wise when we measure ourselves by ourselves and compare ourselves with one another (2CO 10:12). We are foolish to use others as our standard of measurement. Jesus is the only perfect human being who has ever walked on earth. How do we measure against the Messiah? He has a perfect relationship with God.

Did my visitors on Easter weekend have a relationship with God? I saw them coming up the street and two ladies rang my doorbell. One woman had gray hair and she looked old enough to be the younger lady’s grandmother. When I opened the door, the young woman said, “We are handing out literature.” I smiled and told them they were welcome to come in. They thanked me and reluctantly entered my living room. I motioned toward the couch and told them to have a seat as I sat in a chair.

The older lady thanked me as she sat down and then she said, “We are Jehovah Witnesses.” I smiled and said “Praise the Lord. His Name is Jehovah. He is King of kings and Lord of lords.” She then said, “We believe Jesus is the son of God.” I smiled again and said, “God has given Him the Name above every name and at the Name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” My enthusiasm came from within. God had answered my prayer before the doorbell rang when I asked Him to fill me with His Spirit.

It was a joy to speak the words that came out of my mouth and this encounter reminded me of the long application interview for graduate school at the university with Dr. Bolte. The words simply came out! I did not think about what to say and it seemed as though my brain had been bypassed. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (MAT 12:34). God continues to transform my life by the renewing of my mind (ROM 12:2). We are commanded to be transformed by this renewing and it is an act of God. We cannot transform our own lives or renew our minds. God does this by His grace. It can be continuous. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (EPH 5:18). We must seek God if we want to be transformed and if we desire to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

It was almost as though God waved a “caution” flag in my mind when the older lady spoke again. She said in a different tone of voice, “So you believe in the Trinity.” The word “Trinity” cannot be found in the written Word of God. We are not to go beyond what is written (1CO 4:6). God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is a difficult doctrine for many to grasp. In Jerusalem, I had a Muslim friend tell me that Christians believe in three gods. Orthodox Jews believe God is Spirit and He cannot be flesh; therefore, they reject Jesus who Christians believe is God incarnate. I do not believe there is a person on earth who completely understands the Trinity, but I believe the Bible teaches the reality of the Trinity in both the Old and New Testaments. The Trinity is a spiritual revelation of God that I accept by faith.

The young lady sitting on the couch had said nothing, but I could tell she was listening. I told my visitors I believe God is three characters in one. Sharing my time in Israel was easy. I told them the Orthodox Jews recite a prayer everyday called the Shema: “Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One” (DEU 6:4). Then I asked the older lady if she had children. She answered, “Yes” so I said, “Then you are a mother, a daughter and a wife...three characters, but you are only one person. I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

It was a surprise when the older lady began to rise from the couch and she said, “Well we won’t keep you.” With excitement in my voice and a big smile I stood up and said, “But I want to keep you just as God wants to keep you. May I pray for you before you leave?” “No ma’am” the gray-haired lady said in a louder voice as they moved toward the front door. The younger woman held out a piece of literature and I said “no thank you” as I opened the door. I told them I read the living Word of God. “It divides between our souls and our spirits. It convicts us of sin.” When we stepped on the porch I again asked if I could pray for them.

The older lady again said, “No ma’am” and she added, “We are Christians too!” Then I implored once more, “You will not let me pray for you?” She said, “No ma’am!” The goodbye seemed sad as I said, “God bless you and have a wonderful day.” As they walked down the sidewalk there was sorrow in my heart. They chose to walk away.

The Bible tells us: O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake you will be put to shame. Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the Lord, the source of living water (JER 17:13). Have you ever walked away? I have. Praise God for His mercy. Have you ever shown contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads us toward repentance? (ROM 2:4) I have.

Is your name written in the Book of Life (REV 20:15) or will it be written in the dust today? God cursed the serpent in the Garden of Eden. The serpent eats dust (GEN 3:14). Do you ever feel as though an enemy is eating away at the land of your life? “If my people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land” (2CH 7:14). Do you want to be well?

We are created for God’s glory (ISA 43:7). We are told to “fear not” many times in the Bible. Remember when God commissioned Moses to bring the children of Israel out of bondage in Egypt? This was long before Moses asked to see God’s glory. Moses asked God “Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?” The question was not important. God’s answer was. God said, “I will be with you” (EXO 3:12). There was no fear when my door was opened for the “witnesses” on Easter weekend. There was no question of who “I” was. God was with me and I saw a glimpse of His glory. Praise His Name! ~ Susan Smith

Thursday, February 14, 2008

JW's At My Door

Smack dab in the middle of creating my blog post yesterday, the doorbell rang. Two men, one middle-aged, the other a senior, were standing there. They smiled and asked me, "Are you concerned about the crime that is going on today?"

Before the younger man even finished that question, I had already noticed the familiar "Awake" pamphlet in his left hand.

My answer to his question was, "unfortunately, crime will always be with us until Jesus Christ returns." Later, during our conversation, one of the men said that my answer pleasantly surprised him.

I have probably been approached by Jehovah's Witnesses about five times over the last 20 years. Several years had passed since my last encounter. In that situation, a 50ish year old man walked up to me in a grocery store parking lot. I was busy putting my grocery bags in the car. He made a brief reference to my license plate frame. It says, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven by a God who is."

He proceeded to ask me about my God. I told him that I have already heard what JW's share with people when they witness. He said, "we are Christians too." I replied that JW's have many differences in their beliefs regarding who Jesus is. I know that your organization (didn't want to say "cult") claims that belief in the Trinity is considered paganism.

He started to open his New World Translation Bible to share a verse that refutes the belief that Christians have in the Trinity. You know...the same old argument that the word "Trinity" is no where to be found in the Scriptures.

I was in a hurry. Needed to get home to make dinner. However, I tried to be patient and decided to ask him about these verses:


Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.


When I mentioned that Jesus, himself, described the relationship of three persons in one God in Matthew 28:20 [especially noting that he did not say names, but used the singular term name when describing the Godhead], the man didn't know what to say! I also mentioned that the JW's believe that Jesus is a "lesser God" being; and that they believe he is the "begotten Son Of God" and thus, not to be considered " the same in being" as God the Father. However, Matthew 29:18 informs us that "all power is given unto me [Jesus] in heaven and in earth." How can we explain this?

The man turned around and walked away!!

I called out to him and said, "search the Scriptures for yourself to get the truth...do not just blindly follow what the JW teachers want you to preach."

Well, I wasn't about to get out of the conversation so easily with these two guys at my door.

We went round and round on many of the familiar Scriptures that JW's often attempt to dispute.

The middle aged man said that he has been with the Witnesses for 15 years. The older man was "new."

After about 20 minutes of Scripture verses and their interpretation, the men felt that it was time to leave. The younger man offered another little booklet (I had already refused the Awake pamphlet) but I said, "no thank you."

One of the disputes we had was over the meaning of Jesus being "Firstborn over all creation." I encouraged them to go to the Blue Letter Bible online and read the commentaries and Scripture knowledge pages regarding the meaning of that phrase.

They thanked me for my time and appreciated sharing my knowledge and study of the Scriptures with them.

I don't think that I changed their minds yesterday. They certainly didn't change mine. All I can ever hope for after such encounters is that they would research the Scriptures on their own and not just take the word of the leaders of their organization. I also mentioned that their "New World Translation" is not as accurate as the KJV. They insisted that it was a better translation. Today, while going to the Blue Letter Bible site, I noticed that the NWT is not available there! Hmmm...if it's considered so "accurate," I wonder why it has been eliminated from the choices? Wish I would have thought of telling them that when they were at my door.

They mentioned that they will come back to talk again one day. I didn't discourage them. There is always the hope that the Holy Spirit will lead me to the best Scriptures, including the ones listed below, next time to help them understand the concept of the Trinity.


God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:22; Psalms 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14


P.S. As far as arguing with Jehovah's Witnesses goes, a previous conversation that I had with a commenter named "Ratiocination" in August, 2005 over at my message board certainly demonstrates how unwilling they are to see the truth and give up their cult-like beliefs!

Note: The link to the Robert Bowman article (described in the above linked message board thread) has been changed. Here is the new link:

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Print that essay out and you will be prepared to answer any Jehovah's Witness that comes to your door!

I just printed the commentary out. It's sixteen pages!!! At least I will be much better prepared the next time they come to my door.