Have you heard about the Ohio school that was forced to take down a portrait of Jesus (that had been up for 66 years) because the school does not have the money to pay for the cost of the lawsuit put against the school?
Watch the video:
Fox News.com:
Ohio school takes down Jesus portrait under legal threat
Move to avoid pricey lawsuit over constitutionality of painting.
What was surprising to me (regarding the man in the above video link who was speaking against the portrait of Jesus being hung in the school) was his comment referring to Jesus as, "the Man who created hell on the rest of the world."
Huh????
Either this guy is afraid of going to hell - and deems it a real place, or he is using a subject that he doesn't, supposedly, "believe in" as a non sequitur in order to try and make his point about removal of the portrait.
What this man who is contesting the portrait of Jesus in the school doesn't realize is, no matter what his personal beliefs are about the matter, the Bible explicitly tells us that we have demonic enemies. Rejecting Christ is the way that leads to hell - a destination that the man on the video obviously fears in his own life.
Hell was originally created for Satan and his demons. However, those who reject God's only provision for eternal life - Jesus Christ (HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH , AND THE LIFE!!) - only have themselves to blame. They will appear before God with the penalty due for their own sins on their souls.
Jesus saves!! Christian believers will appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ where they will have the fact of the blood of "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" as forgiveness for all sin and the right to be a child of God; living eternally with Him!
Satan seeks to destroy us, and his demonic hosts are more dangerous than we may realize. The Bible says, "We are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12, NLT)
What this man doesn't realize is that Jesus' death at the cross of Calvary, His Resurrection to life, and His Ascension to the Father in Heaven all represent that for the Christian believer, our foes have already lost the fight. In the book of Hebrews, we read that by His own death Jesus defeated him who held the power of the death; that is the devil. In Revelation 12:10, we read that the saints in the last days overcame their foes by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. The Bible says of Christ, "He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet" (see 1 Corinthians 15:25).
This man, being a non-believer is on his own, helpless and defenseless. We all would be if not for Jesus! Jesus keeps us safe - no matter what happens on this earth - for all eternity! That's the real point of Jesus' ministry and the Gospel story here on this earth!
I'm sure that every reader here could site many times where Jesus prevented bad things from happening to them. I know I can! We all have NO IDEA how many times we've been protected and delivered by His providential hand of protection. Other times, He allows certain things to happen, but in His own way, He always delivers us from them - even through "the valley of the shadow of death" as we physically die but our soul and spirit goes on to live eternally with Christ until we are reunited with new resurrected bodies at the moment of the Rapture.
John 10:27-29 is one of the best verses to inform us of the eternal protection afforded to us through Christ when we repent and believe in Him.
"My sheep listen to My voice; I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand."
What does this mean? It means that the Lord Jesus is able to provide for us and to protect us throughout life and eternity.
The lawsuit hasn't yet run it's course. The portrait was taken down due to a temporary restraining order. The case is scheduled for another hearing next week. However, no matter what the final verdict will be in this particular case, reprobate men like the man on the video at Fox News. com who was part of the lawsuit to get the school to comply with an order to get the 66-year-old STUDENT PLACED tradition of Jesus' portrait removed from the school may think he has won in this life; but he will regret it one day when he will inevitably come face to face with Jesus (whom he has rejected) at the Great White Throne judgment.
Hat tips:
Fox News.com
WND: 'Gate to hell' discovered in Antichrist's neighborhood
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
34 comments:
This comment is funny (from WND SITE):
SpendusMaximus•an hour ago−
With the title of this article read "Gate to hell discovered in Antichrist's neighborhood" I thought that they were going to discuss finding a hole in the Rose Garden at the White House
We know that Jesus certainly preached about hell as if he believed in it. That was quite a change from his fellow Jews, whose Gehenna is not quite the same thing as hell. (In Gehenna, only five people burn for all eternity, not the majority of humanity.). So our protester got it wrong: Jesus was not 'the Man who created hell on the rest of the world', but he might be credited as the one who inflicted hell on the rest of the world.
”We all have NO IDEA how many times we've been protected and delivered by His providential hand of protection. Other times, He allows certain things to happen, but in His own way, He always delivers us from them - “
If you have NO IDEA how many times you've been protected, than how do you know that you HAVE been protected? If you've been protected from harm, it's all Jesus's doing...and if you die in a major incident (say, a mass shooting), the Jesus has still delivered you—by letting you die, so you don't have to live in fear any more. It's a win-win for the deity whether the worshiper lives or not. Clearly, whoever thought this stuff up was a genius!
Where did the portrait hang, anyway? If it was in a public place (and where in a public school isn't?), adjacent to the US flag and other symbols of authority, well, that's just wrong. The fact that it hung there for over 65 years merely made it 'traditional' by longevity, but it still violated the separation clause. And if Jesus now chooses to bring down his wrath on that community (he has a history of such actions), he'll no doubt kill some people who had nothing whatever to do with the portrait's removal—that's his M.O.
(UPDATE: a news photo shows the portrait hanging next to the school's trophy cases.)
Do we have any pictures of Jesus? We know what George Washington looked like, because Stuart's famous portrait was taken from real life. There are only descriptions of what Jesus looked like, and pictorial representations of him didn't start being made until about 500 years after his death, because early Christians considered it scandalous to make pictures of him, just as members of a certain other religion feel about their holy figure.
The school district did the right thing; the Hi-Y Club, who owns the picture, may now display it when its members meet in the school instead of leaving it there all the time, no one's rights have been trampled, God's in his heaven, all's right with the world. Just not all right with you.
To LeRoy Matthews,
Your comment was automatically placed in the spam box. Since I was unable to find the link you wanted me to read, I have decided to delete your comment.
GM -
As for "the separation clause," it has been misinterpreted, misguided, and misused by individuals, lawyers, and courts. The purpose as written in the Constitution:
"Congress shall make NO LAW respecting AN ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
means just that. The "separation of church and state" is not in there. That phrase was in a letter written by Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists assuring them that there would be no established church (like in England) by the government. It was to protect the churches from government interference, not to keep religion out of the public square.
About divine protection.
I know that I was protected when as a teenager, I was hit broadside by a drunk driver who ran a red light at high speed. I wasn't a born again Christian (yet) at the time, but years later I understood quite clearly that I was supernaturally protected on that night.
I don't expect you to believe me or even consider the matter as truthful, but it happened.
I recall the police, the medics, and the evaluators (on the next day at the place where the car was towed) all saying that it was a miracle that the driver was not killed, no less unhurt (except for a slightly strained neck which went away quickly).
That is just one example of protection afforded to me, there were many more afforded to my family as well.
God has a plan for every person. Some leave this earth sooner than others. My time will come, as will yours.
Contrary to your statement that "all is not right with me," I tell you that you are wrong. Why? Because of Jesus, and only because of Him.
I look forward to the day where I see Jesus face to face to worship Him and thank Him for my life, my salvation through Him, and the future resurrection of my transformed body to the mansions in heaven. There will be no more pain, suffering, crying, evil, sin, or death. What a glorious existence it will be!
I am aware the phrase “separation of church and state” is not in the Constitution. I am also aware that there is not one word in the Bible condemning slavery, but lots of words regulating it. That too has been 'misinterpreted, misguided, and misused by individuals, lawyers, and courts'. Since, as you like to boast, “God's Word stands forever”, will you now lead the charge to repeal the 13th Amendment?
Yeah, didn't think so.
Do you mean to say that having a picture of Jesus in a public school ISN'T endorsing an establishment of religion? If the school was named Holy Child or St. Jeanne d'Arc (or even Haroun al-Rashid), that would be another story...but in this country, public schools are just that--public.
Whose god would be worshiped, the Methodist one or the Presbyterian one? What if Episcopalian parents want their kids to attend such a school? You'd say “That's not the government's business,” and you'd be right—as long as the separation clause isn't being infringed.
Notice that no one is saying the Hi-Y Club can't meet there any more; just that they can't leave their icon on permanent display. If someone happens to be attending that school who has doubts about Christian beliefs, the portrait of Jesus in the hall is not going to help. The picture has the force of authority behind it simply because it's in the school.
”...I wasn't a born again Christian (yet) at the time, but years later I understood quite clearly that I was supernaturally protected on that night.”
The drunk driver who killed one of my mates wasn't hurt either. But no miracle was involved.
Did Jesus come to you and say “Remember that time when...? I did that.” If he didn't, then you're just putting things together after the fact.Years after the fact, in this case. If he did that for you, then he also arranged for that driver to get drunk and hit you, because nothing ever happens at random in his universe. Ever think about that?
I have no reason to think you're lying to me, and I'll operate from that assumption unless/until you do. But I also have no reason to think your reasoning is anything but subjective. It happened to you, and only to you, so no one else can testify to the details (like Paul's incident, for example). If that soothes you, fine. It does nothing for me.
GM,
Moses led the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt. Doesn't that count as an objection to it?
The case against the Jesus portrait isn't over yet. We will need to see what happens.
I don't trust the courts or judges to do the right thing anymore. Some of the most horrendous decisions (like Roe vs. Wade) have been made by judges in black robes who apparently have black hearts to match.
Recently, there was a wacko judge that went against even this rabidly leftist administration when he ordered that the "Plan B" drug be available over the counter to girls as young as 11 years old! That's awful!!
A person on Fox News pointed out that he can't get a certain allergy medication over the counter without showing his drivers license. But a young girl can get the Plan B drug - which is a very powerful one to prevent pregnancy "the morning after"! What about the abuse of this drug by perps who rape young girls and then force them to take the drug?
Back to the topic.
God, in His permissive will, allows free will even to sinners. It is wrong to assume that "He also arranged for that driver to get drunk and hit [me]." He allowed it to happen, but I would not label it an "arranging" matter.
We each have a destiny in this world. I was destined to live through that accident, get married, have two children, and so on. I didn't know my future, but God knows every bit of it. In fact, He knew that I would sin and disobey my parents the night I took that car down the shore. I probably deserved to die in that accident. But His mercy, grace, and love, while I was yet a sinner, saved me. Even if no one else in this world believes it, I do believe it.
As I wrote before, I don't expect you to care about the fact that I was saved from death in an auto accident due to certain circumstances that happened in order to keep me alive. The details wouldn't sway you either. But that experience (along with at least half a dozen others that I have either experienced or witnessed of other people) was a solidifying factor in my faith. God didn't have to show me such things, but He chose to do so and I am most grateful for them.
CJW: ”The case against the Jesus portrait isn't over yet. We will need to see what happens.”
Yes, we will. But I read that the county isn't going to waste taxpayer funds fighting it.
”Moses led the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt. Doesn't that count as an objection to it?”
No. Later, God sends the Israelites off on wars of conquest, and that's when he gives them the rules about slavery. His only specific no-no was that fellow Israelites must not be enslaved.
But taking slaves, or buying them, was okay (Lev 25:39, 44~46). Please tell us how that counts as an 'objection' to slavery.
“God, in His permissive will, allows free will even to sinners. It is wrong to assume that "He also arranged for that driver to get drunk and hit [me]." He allowed it to happen, but I would not label it an "arranging" matter.”
Okay, how about this, then: God didn't 'arrange' to prevent it, and by allowing that driver to exercise his free will, he came within an ace of negating your free will. That sound better?
”We each have a destiny in this world. I was destined to live through that accident, get married, have two children, and so on. I didn't know my future, but God knows every bit of it. In fact, He knew that I would sin and disobey my parents the night I took that car down the shore. I probably deserved to die in that accident. But His mercy, grace, and love, while I was yet a sinner, saved me. Even if no one else in this world believes it, I do believe it.”
It doesn't matter if anyone believesit; what matters is, is it true?
”As I wrote before, I don't expect you to care about the fact that I was saved from death in an auto accident due to certain circumstances that happened in order to keep me alive. The details wouldn't sway you either. But that experience (along with at least half a dozen others that I have either experienced or witnessed of other people) was a solidifying factor in my faith. God didn't have to show me such things, but He chose to do so and I am most grateful for them.”
If we say God loves humanity no matter how he treats us, then mercy means nothing, grace means nothing, love means nothing. To throw you into the path of a drunken driver and yet not allow you to be injured is a twisted kind of love, in my book; one might expect that a loving God wouldn't play with your life like that.
As I've said, I have no reason to think that you're lying to me. But the fact remains that it happened to you, and only to you. Why do you think it MUST apply to me, or your grocer, or your neighbor, or your mechanic? According to Paul's story, what happened to him did not happen to his traveling companions. One can only conclude that God didn't think them important enough to influence.
CJW: ”I don't trust the courts or judges to do the right thing anymore. Some of the most horrendous decisions (like Roe vs. Wade) have been made by judges in black robes who apparently have black hearts to match.“
But you never object when they make decisions you support. Why is that?
”Recently, there was a wacko judge that went against even this rabidly leftist administration when he ordered that the "Plan B" drug be available over the counter to girls as young as 11 years old! That's awful!!“
Yes, it is. What's even more awful is that such a drug might even be necessary! Since sex with underage girls is still illegal even in the most liberal of states, anyone of that age who buys it bears close watching, because a crime is involved.
Of course, there are many legislators who might also benefit from the availability of Plan B...imagine how much embarrassment Strom Thurmond might have avoided if he'd had access to it!
”A person on Fox News pointed out that he can't get a certain allergy medication over the counter without showing his drivers license. But a young girl can get the Plan B drug - which is a very powerful one to prevent pregnancy "the morning after"! What about the abuse of this drug by perps who rape young girls and then force them to take the drug?“
The 'certain medication' is probably Sudafed®, which has most of the ingredients necessary to make methamphetamine. I occasionally need it myself. But I don't think a product used for preventing conception could be used for that same purpose!
Once again, Fox News distorts—you deride. You really should get out more.
Your comments to GM were correct. GM does not understand that there is no such thing as separation of church and state except in the minds of those individuals who seek to delete God out of existence (as if they could - mere folly.) Whenever I read comments like this, attacking those (you) who are basically providing an informative service, I become annoyed. But here's how I control the annoyance with both the comments and the actual event in Ohio: I ultimately praise God that Jesus is in control. I know that no matter how badly things are going that it is Jesus who is worthy and this time when He comes to Earth EVERY KNEE, including those who deny Him, shall bow. I can't WAIT for that day! Great work and greater rebuttals!
If Arlen is as clever as he thinks he is, then he'd know that a Jesus who's 'in control' automatically voids any concept of free will. We can't have two people in control, now can we?
There are of course two sides to every story, and this blog is not providing an informative service if it reports only one side. No one else here seems to want to mention that, other side, so I'll do it.
Despite what he says, Arlen CAN wait for the day of Jesus' return, but millions of others have waited as well, and all have gone to meet him halfway. I do not think Arlen's case is a special one.
Seems you left out certain details in your rant, Christine.
First, the 'wacko judge' (Edward Korman, District Court of Eastern New York) believes the contraceptive should be available to all women, without restriction, which is his point of dispute with the Administration. Judge Korman called the decision of HHS Secretary Sibellius “politically motivated, scientifically unjustified and contrary to agency precedent.”
Second, Plan B is only available to women over 18 without prescription. It is, however, still kept behind the counter; one must ask the pharmacist for it. Women under the age of 18 are required to have a prescription, which of course would include these 11-year-olds you mentioned.
Doctors usually don't write prescriptions without seeing the person they're for at least once—and of course, a possibly pregnant 11-year-old IS the victim of a crime, right?
Or do you support Richard Mourdock's belief?
I see Judge Korman's point, but I disagree with it. Unrestricted access to Plan B (i.e. putting it on the shelves) could lead to exactly the kind of abuse you screamed about, because then a perp could walk right in and buy it. Requiring a prescription for teenage girls would greatly reduce that risk.
Thank you for your support, Arlen, and your attempt to bring some sense into the discussion. But as you can see, what is written here against GM's views just falls on his deaf ears (or, more accurately, his blind eyes).
GM can't understand the joy you have in the Lord Jesus. It is like a foreign language to him.
Wanting to see Jesus again is the ultimate point of our relationship with Him! However, only the Father knows the day or time when this will occur. Meanwhile, we work, watch, and wait for that glorious day!
Those who deny Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will one day regret their decision.
Abortion is a horrible evil - even the kind that prevents the fertilized egg from attaching to the wall of the uterus.
God has a plan for every baby "formed in the womb." However, evil men sin, kill, and destroy the most vulnerable human beings on this earth. Therefore, the gifts that would have been afforded to us here on earth by the death of even one aborted baby [Now totally more than 65 million since 1973] cause more suffering. The women who have regretted their abortions, have been harmed by them, or even have died because of them know instinctively that they allowed the killing of their unborn babies.
In the Old Testament, the rebrobates would sacrifice children to their idol Molech. Today, women sacrifice their unborn children to Satan.
But there is forgiveness for such an act through Jesus Christ. Jesus died for every sinner - even the most heinous kind.
However, the unrepentant evil people will suffer the consequences of their sins on their own souls because they outwardly reject God's provision through Jesus Christ.
Arguing about the "Plan B" drug is moot in my mind. Those who support it are guilty of supporting the evil of it and those who don't support it are supporting the good. It is just one more example of men calling evil..."good"; and good..."evil."
GM, what you fail to realize (or even understand), is that God can work in the midst of men - sinful or saved - to achieve His ultimate plan for humanity. The Bible demonstrates how God used different people (those who were good, bad, or indifferent) to achieve His goals in those days. The prophecies that were given by the prophets in the Old Testament were fulfilled by Jesus Christ (most of them - the rest are to be fulfilled at His Second Coming). The fulfillment of prophecy alone should convince even the most ardent skeptic. But of course, a skeptic who denies Christ does so out of lack of faith more than lack of knowledge.
CJW: ”In the Old Testament, the rebrobates would sacrifice children to their idol Molech. Today, women sacrifice their unborn children to Satan.”
All the reprobates did that? Really??
Apart from the god the children were sacrificed to, what was the difference between them and Abraham and Jepthah? One is considered a great hero for being prepared to kill his child for his God, and the other is considered a great hero for actually doing it.
”Arguing about the "Plan B" drug is moot in my mind. Those who support it are guilty of supporting the evil of it and those who don't support it are supporting the good. It is just one more example of men calling evil..."good"; and good..."evil."”
Hey, you're the one who brought up Plan B, not me. You were so furious about it that you went off-topic, by your own admission.
And if we poor humans can't distinguish between what is good and what is evil...how can we know that this God is good?
CJW: ”GM, what you fail to realize (or even understand), is that God can work in the midst of men - sinful or saved - to achieve His ultimate plan for humanity. The Bible demonstrates how God used different people (those who were good, bad, or indifferent) to achieve His goals in those days. The prophecies that were given by the prophets in the Old Testament were fulfilled by Jesus Christ (most of them - the rest are to be fulfilled at His Second Coming). The fulfillment of prophecy alone should convince even the most ardent skeptic. But of course, a skeptic who denies Christ does so out of lack of faith more than lack of knowledge.”
Why should skeptics be convinced, when a number of prophecies have failed? You know what they are; I don't need to repeat them all here. If the predictions made by the Old Testament prophets were wrong (Eze 26:7) or didn't occur (Micah 3:12), then they were false! The OT has very specific rules to determine false prophets, and how to deal with them.
I don't discriminate—I deny all gods, not just yours. But there's no Marduk-worship web blogs, as far as I know. When you have knowledge, you don't need faith.
I don't know anything about this Plan you're so on about. If YOU believe that God can work in the midst of men to achieve His ultimate plan for humanity (whatever that may be), then whatever anyone says or does, or doesn't say or do, will not alter that. But you're always behaving as though you DON'T believe it. Desperately trying to change this law or that, voting for this person, not that one...and it never seems to occur to you that the people you don't like may also carrying out this plan. Maybe God has explained it all to you, but he's apparently decided to 'mushroom' me.
I will not be swayed by threats, Christine. Not even supernatural ones.
Still waiting for that slavery explanation, BTW.
The name "Jepthah" isn't in the Bible. Did you get that name from the Apocrypha?
About the slavery issue. I think that I have already answered that question in the past, but you didn't accept it then as you probably won't now.
Under Hebrew law, slaves were treated differently from slaves in other nations. They were seen as human beings with dignity, and not as animals. Hebrew slaves, for example, took part in the religious festivals and rested on the Sabbath. Nowhere does the Bible condone slavery, but it recognizes its existence. God's laws offered many guidelines for treating slaves properly.
According to Dt. 15:12-15, the Israelites were to release theirs after six years.
The Pharoah in Egypt is one example of the wrong way to treat slaves. He ordered the slave masters to keep them working as fast a possible, making a slave's life miserable.
Pharoah was afraid that the Israelites were becoming so numerous that they would organize and threaten his kingdom.
Slavery was an ancient practice used by almost all nations to employ conquered people and other captives. Israel was not a conquered nation, however, they were foreigners and didn't have the rights of native Egyptians.
Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice that the Father would make for all mankind through our Savior, Jesus Christ. Abraham was stopped, however, and I have read commentaries that say that Abraham either thought that a substitute (also analogous to Jesus being the substitute for each of us) would appear (the ram in the thicket); or that Isaac would be resurrected. The reason for this is that God made the promise to Abraham to build a great nation through him, so if his son was dead this would not be possible to occur.
There are no prophecies that have failed. They may not have been fulfilled yet (which is logical because the end times prophecies will be fulfilled upon Christ's return), and that is where you are incorrect in your thinking.
The plan I am referring to might be explained in this way. Think of a tapestry being woven. We on earth only see the "wrong" side, while God sees the beautiful completed plan all along via the right side. Another analogy is that we "see as through a glass darkly," where God in heaven sees all clearly.
There is no need for me to share threats - I'm just telling the truth on such matters. If it bothers you, then go somewhere else. This blog speaks to a larger audience than just you, GM.
CJW: ”The name "Jepthah" isn't in the Bible. Did you get that name from the Apocrypha?“
My error: it's spelled “Jephthah”, and I got it from Judges 11, which appears even in your bible.
”Under Hebrew law, slaves were treated differently from slaves in other nations. They were seen as human beings with dignity, and not as animals. Hebrew slaves, for example, took part in the religious festivals and rested on the Sabbath. Nowhere does the Bible condone slavery, but it recognizes its existence. God's laws offered many guidelines for treating slaves properly.“
The bible offers many guidelines. For homosexuals, it says “kill them” and for oysters it says “don't eat them”. It recognizes the existence of both, and in fact calls both 'abomination'. So how difficult would it have been to add “thou shalt not enslave thy fellow man”?
”According to Dt. 15:12-15, the Israelites were to release theirs after six years.“
Yeah: ”If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free.”
Notice how it applies only to their own people, and no one else? Or that they get to own them forever if the freed slave chooses not to leave? Exodus 21:3~4 (which Deuteronomy neglects to repeat) has more details of the exact conditions of release.
”Slavery was an ancient practice used by almost all nations to employ conquered people and other captives. Israel was not a conquered nation, however, they were foreigners and didn't have the rights of native Egyptians.“
The scriptures constantly remind them that they themselves were once slaves. But although they longed for freedom, the Hebrews didn't seem to think that anyone else was entitled to that same freedom, for they kept slaves, just like all the other kids on the block did.
”Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice that the Father would make for all mankind through our Savior, Jesus Christ.“
What, Abe's son was a prelude for Jesus?! Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why would God need to do a practice run for anything? He already knew that humans were willing to spill innocent blood for their gods.
”There are no prophecies that have failed. They may not have been fulfilled yet (which is logical because the end times prophecies will be fulfilled upon Christ's return), and that is where you are incorrect in your thinking.“
Then I submit for your perusal Ezekiel 30:10~16.
The doom pronounced upon Egypt was plain. Zeke said who would do it: Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon. He did invade Egypt, but was beaten back. He never got as far as Memphis or Thebes. The land was not 'filled with the slain' nor was it uninhabited by man or beast for forty years (29:11). In fact, the Egyptian ruler remained on the throne another twenty or so years, and actually lived long enough to hear that Nebuchadrezzar had died.
Since historical facts don't back up this prophecy (and since Neb is 3500 years dead), this one has failed. There are others.
”There is no need for me to share threats - I'm just telling the truth on such matters. If it bothers you, then go somewhere else. This blog speaks to a larger audience than just you, GM.“
It doesn't bother me at all, hostess. You invited me here, so here I am, and—surprise!-- not all your audience is as intractable as you.
Jephthah made a foolish vow. You can't blame God for Jephthah's stupidity.
There are several schools of thought regarding this event. Jephthah was from an area where pagan religion and human sacrifice were common. In his eyes, it may not have seemed like a sin. He may have been ignorant of God's command against human sacrifice. [Thou shalt not kill.]
I don't know where you get the idea that this was "celebrated." The Bible is an honest book that records the sins and errors of men. It is not God who is inconsistent, it is man who is inconsistent. Man's tendency throughout time is towards reprobation, dishonesty, destructive pride, boastful ways, sinful deeds and evil due to rejection of God and holiness.
Unfortunately, when you read the Bible, your reprobate mind causes you to apply your hatred for God in your analysis. You don't see the truth that mankind is sinful and deserving of death. It's not only the homosexuals or those who eat shellfish - it's all of us. That's why we are all in need of the Savior. Your arguments fall flat in light of this fact.
I didn't write that "Abraham's son was a 'prelude' for Jesus." It was a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice. I don't expect you to understand this because you reject
God's "only way" for salvation through the sacrificial death of Christ.
About the Ezekiel prophecy. Nebuchadnezzar attacked Egypt around 572 B.C. and carried many people off to Babylon, while others feld for safety to surrounding nations. Approximately 33 years later, Cyrus, king of the Persian empire, conquered Babylon and allowed the nations which Babylon had conquered to return to their homelands. Adding a possible seven-year regrouping and travel period, this could then make up that 40-year time period. Since that time, Egypt has never returned to its previous dominance as a world power.
And look at the chaos happening in Egypt today! In Muslim Brotherhood hatred, jihad, and death towards the "infidel" Christians!
Also, if I am as intractable" as you wrote, then you are an absolute idiot for wasting your time here...invitation or not!
”Jephthah made a foolish vow. You can't blame God for Jephthah's stupidity.“
Jephthah was a devoted man, it seems. He did not make a public declaration of his vow; it was between him and his god, as was proper. But as God can see the future, he knew he was soon going to have a virgin sacrifice before Jeph even said anything. Neither God nor his adversary will let us back out of a contract, apparently!
”There are several schools of thought regarding this event. Jephthah was from an area where pagan religion and human sacrifice were common. In his eyes, it may not have seemed like a sin. He may have been ignorant of God's command against human sacrifice. [Thou shalt not kill.]“
Horse puckey! What was good enough for Abraham and Isaac was good enough for Jephthah and his daughter. There had been human sacrifices in Egypt, too, but Jeph was at least a generation removed from those days. Which school of thought do you attend?
”I don't know where you get the idea that this was "celebrated."
I didn't write 'celebrated', did I? Let me look...no, I didn't. But I know Abraham's story is celebrated, because I don't know any Christian who didn't learn it in Sunday School/church. Jephthah's more somber tale is usually withheld from children.
”Unfortunately, when you read the Bible, your reprobate mind causes you to apply your hatred for God in your analysis. You don't see the truth that mankind is sinful and deserving of death. It's not only the homosexuals or those who eat shellfish - it's all of us. That's why we are all in need of the Savior. Your arguments fall flat in light of this fact.“
Except it only describes the 'all of us' part much later; the OT describes what must immediately be avoided or destroyed, and names them precisely.
”I didn't write that "Abraham's son was a 'prelude' for Jesus." It was a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice. I don't expect you to understand this because you reject God's "only way" for salvation through the sacrificial death of Christ."
Unlike Jesus' death, Isaac's was to be a private one, with his killer as the only witness. Some prelude!
”About the Ezekiel prophecy. Nebuchadnezzar attacked Egypt around 572 B.C. and carried many people off to Babylon, while others feld for safety to surrounding nations. Approximately 33 years later, Cyrus, king of the Persian empire, conquered Babylon and allowed the nations which Babylon had conquered to return to their homelands. Adding a possible seven-year regrouping and travel period, this could then make up that 40-year time period. Since that time, Egypt has never returned to its previous dominance as a world power.“
Which means nothing. Zeke specifically named Nebuchadrezzar, and what he would do--and he didn't do it. Egypt did not fall, it did not become desolate for 40 years, and Neb can't try again, because he's been dust for 3500 years. Ezekiel made no mention of Cyrus, either. Repeat: prophecy failed.
'33 years later' this, 'adding a possible seven years' that...now I see how you earned that apologetics certificate.
”Also, if I am as intractable" as you wrote, then you are an absolute idiot for wasting your time here...invitation or not!“
It's my time to waste, hostess...and I don't feel it's time wasted at all.
Atheists are generally condescending and most (I've engaged many in discussion over the years) genuinely believe that the majority of Christians have less education or intelligence.
Jesus has granted us free will, but with my will, I choose to follow His will. I trust Him to be in control of my life; I submit to His authority and because I do, I have His peace, which is so much more than the absence of conflict.
The bottom line is this: what matters the most in this life is what you decide to do with Jesus. If you accept Him, then you will receive all of His promised benefits which are worth more than any man can calculate. Or you can deny Jesus, fail to have a relationship with Him and render your time here on Earth (and eternity) useless.
We all pass away, some sooner than others. If GM is correct, then I have nothing to fear when I pass through the portal of life into eternity because nothing will be there. But if Jesus is correct, then GM will have eternity to assess his decision.
Most people will concede that Jesus was a good or great man. But He claimed to be God. Either He is God, or He is a liar. If He is a liar, that would negate His greatness. But if He is God, and if everything He says is true, then you had better rethink your position. I'm betting my life on Jesus (and I don't regret an instant.)
Sad, but true Arlen. Note GM's mocking of my "apologetics certificate."
God's plan all along was to give us free will to CHOOSE to follow His will. Adam and Eve chose wrongly - and sin entered the world. The consequence of that is exposure to evil and ultimately the death of the body. What is so hard to understand about that?
People like GM can't accept what we believe as the absolute Truth, because then it would mean that he (GM) is following error(s) and falsehoods.
I agree with you that placing our lives in Jesus' hands is the kind of peace that surpasses all understanding. Like you, I don't regret it at all and celebrate the relationship I have with Him daily!
God bless you for sharing such wonderful words of wisdom!
Arlen: ”Most people will concede that Jesus was a good or great man. But He claimed to be God. Either He is God, or He is a liar. If He is a liar, that would negate His greatness. But if He is God, and if everything He says is true, then you had better rethink your position. I'm betting my life on Jesus (and I don't regret an instant.)”
Either Jesus was God, in which case I'm wrong, or he was not, in which case he was wrong. Being a liar is being deliberately wrong. I just think he was mistaken, not that he was trying to mislead people. If Arlen is wrong saying 2+2=5, he is not a liar; he's simply wrong. And even liars have been known to tell the truth now and then.
Arlen is not betting his life on Jesus, he's betting his afterlife on him. Since I've seen no evidence of an afterlife, I'm not placing any bets.
CJW: ”God's plan all along was to give us free will to CHOOSE to follow His will. Adam and Eve chose wrongly - and sin entered the world. The consequence of that is exposure to evil and ultimately the death of the body. What is so hard to understand about that?”
This:
God is the potter and we are the clay, or so we are told. The point being that the pot does not make itself; we are what makes us. If that is true, free will is a sham and a lie. We cannot CHOOSE to be other than what God has made us...yet somehow we are to blame!
“It ain't the parts of the Bible I don't understand that bother me. It's the parts I do understand.”
Even people not exposed to evil ultimately have their bodies die. Why do you fear death so much?
If free will "is a sham and a lie," as you, GM, have mistakenly written, then why wouldn't God now be forcing you to believe in Him?
By the term "choosing," are you refering to the idea that we can't choose to be, say, a horse or goat instead of human? Or are you stating that human lives can't be transformed? I believe (and have witnessed) that millions of lives have been transformed spiritually, then through the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word, transformed in the mind and body. Are you claiming that we are but robots that can't be changed by the renewing of the mind (towards Christ) and thus the outcome of one's life here on earth cannot be transformed?
If you think that way, then you have a veil over your eyes and your hands over your ears! Your mouth and what you speak (write) about...well...that's another story.
The death of the body happens to all because one cannot enter into heaven with it. I would rather have a new, resurrected body (like Christ's body) than to bring my current corrupted body into eternity.
I don't know of one person who hasn't been exposed to evil of some sort. Do you? Name him or her. Some persons don't even get out of the womb alive because of the evil called abortion!
It is only natural to fear death. It is the portal into eternity, but taking one's last breath on this earth is scary.
Psalm 23 helps alleviate such fears in light of the verse that tells us that we go through "the valley of the shadow of death." Jesus took all the sins of the world upon himself, and that trainwreck type of death we cannot even fathom. But that terribly evil and sad day burst back into glory when Jesus was bodily resurrected from the grave!
I admit that I fear death on the "earthly" level. But the promises of Jesus Christ alleviate such fear because when I answer his question, "Who do you say that I am?" I reply as Peter did, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."
That's all I need. Christ is all that I need or ever wanted. When this life on earth is over, a better one will be had by me and all believers! I can't wait to see my Lord and Savior, and all of those loved ones who died before me in heaven! It will be an awesome reunion!
CJW: ”If free will 'is a sham and a lie,' as you, GM, have mistakenly written, then why wouldn't God now be forcing you to believe in Him?”
I see three possibilities:
One: he exists, and selected me for the Nasty Place 'way back when he built the universe.
Two: he exists, and doesn't care whether or not I believe.
Three: he doesn't exist, and my will is my own.
”By the term "choosing," are you refering to the idea that we can't choose to be, say, a horse or goat instead of human? Or are you stating that human lives can't be transformed? I believe (and have witnessed) that millions of lives have been transformed spiritually, then through the knowledge and wisdom of God's Word, transformed in the mind and body. Are you claiming that we are but robots that can't be changed by the renewing of the mind (towards Christ) and thus the outcome of one's life here on earth cannot be transformed?”
You wrote 'choose' in great big capital letters to emphasize something, I guess. Some Christians do indeed believe we are but robots, following a programmed directive that we did not initiate, and toward a destiny we cannot change. They're called Calvinists, I think.
John Newton, who wrote Amazing Grace, had been a slaver before his spiritual transformation, yet it took him several years after that to get out of the slave-trading racket. Then again, I suspect that his own brief time as a slave may have had something to do with that transformation.
”If you think that way, then you have a veil over your eyes and your hands over your ears! Your mouth and what you speak (write) about...well...that's another story.”
Some of what you've written about on these pages over the years probably isn't worthy of your God, let alone worthy of man! You should watch where you point that finger.
”The death of the body happens to all because one cannot enter into heaven with it. I would rather have a new, resurrected body (like Christ's body) than to bring my current corrupted body into eternity.”
I've sometimes wondered about that. Your body will supposedly be perfect; perfect for childbearing, but there will be no such thing in heaven. Perfect for athletics, but there will be no such thing in heaven. Perfectly capable of digesting any food...but will there be feasting in heaven? Will there be beer? Will those 'mansions' have flush toilets—or any need for them? Will people have perfect 25-year-old bodies, or perfect 85-year-old ones? In other popular fiction, people in heaven are always shown as being at whatever age they were when they died.
According to you, I'll be given a body that would make Superman grind his teeth in envy, but it will have only one purpose: to endure torture that goes on forever. Even the most benign of modern Christians believes this. Well, I'd sooner have no god at all than a god like that.
”I don't know of one person who hasn't been exposed to evil of some sort. Do you? Name him or her. Some persons don't even get out of the womb alive because of the evil called abortion!”
I don't know any such people either, Christine. You keep saying that sin 'entered' the world. Where did it come from? We humans didn't invent it!
There are such things as stillbirths, as I'm sure you know. Roe v. Wade has nothing to do with those! Are those evil, too?
”It is only natural to fear death. It is the portal into eternity, but taking one's last breath on this earth is scary.”
Exactly! Everyone wants to live forever, but no one's in a hurry to die first. That's where religion comes in: telling people that death is merely the first step into forever makes it much less scary.
-conclusion follows-
-concluding-
CJW: ”Psalm 23 helps alleviate such fears in light of the verse that tells us that we go through 'the valley of the shadow of death.' Jesus took all the sins of the world upon himself, and that trainwreck type of death we cannot even fathom. But that terribly evil and sad day burst back into glory when Jesus was bodily resurrected from the grave!”
Jesus was nailed to a plank. It was certainly not a unique form of death. Thousands went that way before him, and thousands after him; it was quite common in that place and time. Some hung there for days before they died; Jesus' death was over in a matter of hours. Accepting all the world's sins upon oneself isn't unique either. Other divinities did it before Jesus (one only a generation before him), and at least a few after him. At best Jesus was only inconvenienced, because after all, people say he came back. But he only stayed 50 days, and now he can't walk among us like he used to do.
”I admit that I fear death on the "earthly" level. But the promises of Jesus Christ alleviate such fear because when I answer his question, "Who do you say that I am?" I reply as Peter did, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."
Once again: what did Jesus say when Peter told him that?
”That's all I need. Christ is all that I need or ever wanted. When this life on earth is over, a better one will be had by me and all believers! I can't wait to see my Lord and Savior, and all of those loved ones who died before me in heaven! It will be an awesome reunion!”
So your eagerly-awaited next life cheapens this life, because if there's another, eternal life, there is no need to do what you can for whomever you can in this one. Funny, because Jesus never said anything about neglecting earthly life for the life to come.
(EDIT: Oh wait, he did. Mat 6:34.)
I think of it in the classic manner; passing on the tools and the torch to those who come after me. “I've done the best I can, and here and there I've made a small improvement. It's up to you now. Do better.”
About the idea that God "selected you for the nasty place" - the Bible states that God does not want anyone to perish, but to come to salvation. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
Eze 33:11 "Say to them: '[As] I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'
2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
[The above verses also disputes your belief that God does not care whether or not you believe.]
I wrote CHOOSE because it relates to free will choices. Each person has until his/her last breath on this earth to confess sin, repent, and turn to Jesus Christ. Recall the one thief on the cross next to Jesus (who asked Jesus to remember him when he enters into His kingdom) was told that he would be with Christ that day in paradise.
I admit I'm not perfect. No one is. I continue not to be while on this earth. That is why we all need the Savior.
Inequity was found in Lucifer - who was cast down out of heaven and became Satan. 1/3 of the angels followed him (turned demons). Adam and Eve were tempted in the Garden of Eden - you know the rest. They WANTED to know both good (which they were already experiencing in their walk with God) and evil. Their guilt showed because they tried to hide from God. Mankind has been doing that ever since.
There is an excellent study guide called Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven by Dr. David Jeremiah. I trust what is written because it is based on Scripture. Whenever any speculation is shared, the author says so.
To briefly answer some of your questions, the study guide shares that Jesus ate food on at least two occasions during the 40 days on earth with his disciples after his resurrection. There are other Scriptures that tell us there will be eating in heaven (e.g. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb) but it won't be in order for our bodies to survive, but for the pleasure of eating. It's just speculation on my part, but I would think that a perfect body ingesting perfect foods would have no need to excrete waste.
Maybe there will be beer and our bodies won't get drunk.
I don't know about the age question. Some have speculated that our bodies might be at the same age when Jesus died (33 yrs., then rose again. The one thing emphasied in Scripture is that we will be able to recognize each other.
(con't)
A purposed abortion - done by a medical doctor is different from a stillbirth or "spontaneous abortion" where the fertilized egg doesn't survive and/or attach to the womb.
Abortion is unthinkable in my mind. It is an egregious sin and goes against the commandment, "thou shalt not murder."
God gives us all a purpose to fulfill on this earth, and when our purpose has been completed, He takes us home. Meanwhile, we try to avoid the near occasions of sin and evil in our lives.
After Peter stated that Jesus is the Christ:
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Revelations from God the Father happened throughout the Bible before Christ came, suffered, died, was buried, risen, and then ascended into heaven. When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost upon the apostles, they had a Helper - the third person of the Trinity.
Recall what Christ said after doubting Thomas put his hand into Jesus' resurrected body side which still had the scars of crucifixion as evidence of His bodily resurrection:
Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed [are] those who have not seen and [yet] have believed."
I disagree with your statement that "[my] eagerly-awaited next life cheapens this life." On the contrary, my "assignment," if you will, is to do what I can to share the Gospel of Christ while at the same time being a good wife, mother, friend, employee (when I worked) etc. while on this earth.
Christians are to be doing the work that Christ gave as His final command just before His Ascension into heaven:
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen. [fn]
CJW: ”About the idea that God "selected you for the nasty place" - the Bible states that God does not want anyone to perish, but to come to salvation. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.”
If an all-powerful God does not want something to happen, it will not happen. Surely you're not going to claim otherwise!
Isn't there a gap of about 1200 years between Chronicles and Thessalonians? 'Cause the first two verses you quoted make no mention of Christ, while the last two do. A lot can happen in a few centuries, including a transformation to belief in a more forgiving God. Yahweh made very sure everyone knew who he was, but Jesus's Father wasn't quite so...dogmatic.
”I wrote CHOOSE because it relates to free will choices. Each person has until his/her last breath on this earth to confess sin, repent, and turn to Jesus Christ. Recall the one thief on the cross next to Jesus (who asked Jesus to remember him when he enters into His kingdom) was told that he would be with Christ that day in paradise.“
You know better than I that the 'nice' version of that story is told only in Luke. In Matthew, both of the thieves mocked Jesus hanging up there with them. We know which version Christians prefer, but which one is true?
”Inequity was found in Lucifer - who was cast down out of heaven and became Satan. 1/3 of the angels followed him (turned demons). Adam and Eve were tempted in the Garden of Eden - you know the rest. They WANTED to know both good (which they were already experiencing in their walk with God) and evil.“
How could A&E have WANTED to know good and evil when they didn't know what it was?
God never told them what the so-called Tree of Knowledge could do; he merely told them not to eat from it. He never told them why until after, when it was too late; and he was clearly afraid that if they ate more, they would live forever. He couldn't abide that idea, so he threw them out and cursed them. Now we're supposed to believe he's changed his mind. He offers us eternal life, but on his terms only.
I'm sure you mean 'iniquity'--'inequity' is something very different.
You keep saying that: sin 'entered' the world. Iniquity 'was found' in Lucifer. Where did these things come from? Unless you're willing to claim that there was some other power equal to (or greater than) God, this sin and iniquity stuff can only have had one source: God himself. Since you will never acknowledge anything greater than your God, that leaves you in a rather awkward position.
”After Peter stated that Jesus is the Christ:“
Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him. Mar 8:29
Matthew says one thing, Mark says another. Both of them could be, and one of them must be, wrong.
”Christians are to be doing the work that Christ gave as His final command just before His Ascension into heaven:
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen.“
I think Christians would have done (and would do) better if they'd remembered Jesus' earlier words:
Mat 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
...but then, I'm just a stray sheep. What do I know?
OK GM, since you still challenge my explanations, why don't you explain how man's free will and God's ultimate will can work together for good for those who love the Lord?
Your second paragraph is bit convoluted. I can only guess that you don't agree that the God of the Old Testament (OT) is the same as the God of the New Testament (NT)?
Believers in the OT looked forward to the say when the promised Messiah would come. They dealt with God the Father, but also with Christ who was labeled as THE Angel of the LORD in the OT. Scholars who have studied Scripture have determined that the Angel of the LORD in the OT were preincarnate visitations of Christ.
The two thieves may have mocked Christ at first, but one repented. They hung there alongside Jesus for hours, you know. The accounts don't clash. One author may have emphasized one thing more than the other.
About good and evil. Your account of what happened and was recorded in the Bible is skewed. They were told they would die if they ate from it. They died spiritually first (trying to hide from God), and physically over the course of time.
Adam and Eve LIVED in goodness and walked with God. They experienced good! But when given the choice to obey God's command not to eat of one tree (remember...they had multitudes of trees to eat from) they didn't pass the test. They listened to a voice that was not from God and thus suffered the consequences of knowing evil. And now, the "whole earth groans" for redemption.
Yes...sorry about the typo. Iniquity entered into Lucifer because he wanted to be above God and worshipped. Recall Satan tempting Jesus in the desert saying "if you will bow down and worship me... I will give you..."
People today don't even realize that they are worshipping at the feet of Satan when they sin. They are in bondage to that sin and will one day suffer the consequences if they don't repent and turn to Christ before dying.
Back to Adam and Eve, when they sinned, God could not allow them to eat of the tree of eternal life, because they would be destined to live forever in sin, evil and death. The Tree of Life reappears in the book of Revelation in the end times.
I have already explained to you why Christ said what he did [not to tell others about him] at that particular time. It was not yet his time to be crucified. When it was found out that Christ said that he was the long-awaited Jewish Messiah, it led to the Pharisees having him arrested and crucified.
The following verses also explain why Jesus said what he did - because Peter wanted to prevent the arrest, crucifixion, and ultimately Christ paying for the sins of the world.
Mar 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
Mar 8:32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
Mar 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."
(con't)
In Matthew 7, Jesus also gave words of warnings regarding dealing with, and witnessing to men:
Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Mat 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Mat 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mat 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Mat 7:24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Mat 7:25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Mat 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
Mat 7:27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
Mat 7:28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching,
Mat 7:29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
CJW: ”OK GM, since you still challenge my explanations, why don't you explain how man's free will and God's ultimate will can work together for good for those who love the Lord?“
Because I'm not making that claim, and I don't believe it. God's a fictional character to me, remember?
”Your second paragraph is bit convoluted. I can only guess that you don't agree that the God of the Old Testament (OT) is the same as the God of the New Testament (NT)?“
Actually, I think he is, and the OT version is the more authentic one. Most Christians today, when confronted with the Yahweh-ordered cruelties in the OT, say something like “That was back then. But Jesus brought changed all that.” Except he didn't.
If God could order Abraham to slay his child, he could order you to slay your child, and you will have to do it. Don't argue “He wouldn't do that”, because he has done that, as your Bible recounts. A God who would destroy humanity once could do so again, and in fact has promised that he will! After all, he plainly says “I am the Lord; I change not.”
It's only that many (most?) Christians don't really want to believe that.
”Believers in the OT looked forward to the say when the promised Messiah would come. They dealt with God the Father, but also with Christ who was labeled as THE Angel of the LORD in the OT. Scholars who have studied Scripture have determined that the Angel of the LORD in the OT were preincarnate visitations of Christ.“
The Jews—who know your God better than the Christians do (he's their God, after all)--say that the Messiah has not yet come. Since the believers in the OT were all Jews, I'm inclined to think their view carries a bit more weight. You said it yourself; they dealt with God the Father! Why should they give him up for God, Jr.?
If you put a 'preincarnate' Christ there, you can place him anywhere: as the Egyptian Horus, who also did much of what Jesus did, except about a thousand years sooner; or Adonis, who annually died and rose again. “Nothing new under the sun,” you know.
”The two thieves may have mocked Christ at first, but one repented. They hung there alongside Jesus for hours, you know. The accounts don't clash. One author may have emphasized one thing more than the other.“
Or one author may have included one thing more than the other. Matthew's account says nothing about one thief changing his mind. Again, which story is true?
”About good and evil. Your account of what happened and was recorded in the Bible is skewed. They were told they would die if they ate from it. They died spiritually first (trying to hide from God), and physically over the course of time.“
Skewed how? They ate the fruit, God found out about it, and said, “Behold the man has...
and then he kicked them out of Eden, even placing an angel with a flaming sword to prevent them from returning! (If the angel had been on duty before the serpent arrived, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, but I digress.) I condensed it, but I left nothing out. You, OTOH, put something in: God said nothing about 'spiritual' death, neither before nor after. He was only concerned that A&E should not live forever.
--conclusion follows--
--concluding--
CJW: ”Adam and Eve LIVED in goodness and walked with God. They experienced good! But when given the choice to obey God's command not to eat of one tree (remember...they had multitudes of trees to eat from) they didn't pass the test. They listened to a voice that was not from God and thus suffered the consequences of knowing evil. And now, the "whole earth groans" for redemption.“
God, who knows the end before the beginning, obviously knew the First Couple would fail. So why did he do it? Couldn't he stop himself? Or did he...set them up?
Omniscience can be such a problem sometimes...
”Yes...sorry about the typo. Iniquity entered into Lucifer because he wanted to be above God and worshipped. Recall Satan tempting Jesus in the desert saying "if you will bow down and worship me... I will give you..."
If this iniquity 'entered into' Lucifer, then Lucifer didn't originally have it; therefore, it had to come from somewhere else. Where?
See, religion is full of fuzzy language like this, which claims to answer questions without actually supplying information. Where did this iniquity come from?
”Back to Adam and Eve, when they sinned, God could not allow them to eat of the tree of eternal life, because they would be destined to live forever in sin, evil and death. The Tree of Life reappears in the book of Revelation in the end times.”
But as a non-believer, I am destined to live forever in sin, evil and death, according to this, and I never even saw the tree, much less eaten from it.
”I have already explained to you why Christ said what he did [not to tell others about him] at that particular time. It was not yet his time to be crucified. When it was found out that Christ said that he was the long-awaited Jewish Messiah, it led to the Pharisees having him arrested and crucified.”
And I am reminding you that there is more than one account of what was actually said. Both stories describe the same incident, but Matthew's version is said to be a later insertion. It was meant to establish Peter's credentials for the Church he established—the one you walked away from.
”The following verses also explain why Jesus said what he did - because Peter wanted to prevent the arrest, crucifixion, and ultimately Christ paying for the sins of the world.”
You mean Peter, a mere man, could have thwarted God's plan?? How could such things be??
”In Matthew 7, Jesus also gave words of warnings regarding dealing with, and witnessing to men:
Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
Luke's Jesus gave some pretty wise advice too:
Luk 9:5 "If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."
Next!
I ended one quote rather abruptly, so for the sake of clarity I shall include the full verses:
Gen 3:22~23 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." *
So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
*(emphasis mine, of course.)
Oh yes, there's something else I'd like to remind you of:
”About good and evil. Your account of what happened and was recorded in the Bible is skewed. They were told they would die if they ate from it. They died spiritually first (trying to hide from God), and physically over the course of time.“
Gen 2:17 “...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
(The KJV, as I'm sure you know, says “in the day that thou eatest”; the NIV avoids that with a different translation.) In brief, God says “eat that and you'll die,” and says nothing at all about any physical OR spiritual death. Heck, God didn't even tell them what death was, because Christians (including you) assure me that there was no such thing in Eden. All that probably came later, when the Bible became codified.
Of course the death was a slow-motion one; Adam lived to become one of the oldest men in the Bible, and Eve...I've no idea what became of her. She could still be out there—women generally live longer than men, after all.
My account is skewed, but I told everything. I didn't include something extra, as you have done.
Post a Comment