Wednesday, September 21, 2005

Wisdom vs. Folly

Over a period of several months, I once attempted to witness to a troubled teenaged boy through sharing the gospel of Christ. Our conversations often turned volatile and confrontational. One day, I was kind of surprised when he emailed me with an interesting question.

Before I get to that question, I will share some background information. He had previously claimed that a secular band that he likes often wrote lyrics that were about the Lord. It seems that a friend of his pointed out that some of the lyrics from a song written by this popular local band named "Thrice" appeared to be similar in meaning to Proverbs 9:14-17. He wanted me to compare the lyrics to the Proverb. He also asked me what I thought the lyrics meant.

With so many offensive lyrics in songs out there in the secular music world, I was glad that these lyrics might be seen as having a positive , redeeming value and impact on our youth.

This challenge intrigued me so I got busy reading and studying Proverbs chapter 9 and then shared what I learned from the Scriptures.

Proverbs 9:14-17 "she sits at the door of her house, on a seat at the highest point of the city, calling out to those who pass by, who go straight on their way. Let all who are simple come in here.....she says to those who lack judgment; stolen water is sweet; food eaten in secret is delicious"

I was asked to read these lyrics from Thrice and tell him if there was any comparison.

"and she calls from the doorway "stolen water is so sweet,
so lets drink in the darkness if you know what i mean"
and she calls from the doorway "stolen water is so sweet,
so lets drink in the darkness if you know what i mean"

and I'm almost sure
that I've been here before,
that this is not the first time I've stood in front of this door,
with an overwhelming feeling that i shouldn't go in,
but it seems this is a battle that i never could win.

(Lyrics from Thrice - Deadbolt)

Before discussing the comparison, I would like to share what this portion of Scripture is about. Basically, the entire chapter of Proverbs 9 contains invitations of wisdom and folly (foolishness).

Wisdom and Folly are portrayed as rival young women, each preparing a feast and inviting people to it. But Wisdom is a responsible woman of character, while Folly is a prostitute serving stolen food. Wisdom appeals first to the mind; Folly to the senses. It is easier to excite the senses, but the pleasures of Folly are temporary. By contrast, the satisfaction that wisdom brings lasts forever.

I think that the verse just before Proverbs 9:14 are important in determining the meaning and context. It says, " 13 The woman Folly is loud; she is undisciplined and without knowledge."

Next, the verse just after Proverbs 9:18 gives better context also. It says, "19 But little do they know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of the grave."

After comparing the two, I think these lyrics capture the warning of accepting the invitation from "Folly."

...and you!
my true love!
you call from the hilltop.
you call through the streets,
"Darling don't you know,the water is poison."

I would equate this portion of the lyrics with Proverbs 8. Here, Wisdom's call is contrasted to the call of the adulteress in chapter 7. Wisdom is portrayed as a woman who guides us (8:1-13) and makes us succeed (8:14-21).

God approves of those who listen to wisdom's counsel (8:32-35). Those who hate wisdom love death (8:36). Wisdom should affect every aspect of our entire life, from beginning to end.

I think that these lyrics might be encouraging us to open all corners of our lives to God's direction and guidance...through Wisdom. The last portion (Darling etc.) appears to be a warning to avoid 'poison' water (sin?) that leads to death. Just my opinion though.

...and i say!"come on and give me my poison."

Sounds like we could perceive the person giving in to temptation.

In contrast, it could possibly be interpreted in a different way. It could be seen as Wisdom asking Folly to turn from sin and give Him (God) the 'poison' of that sin so that Folly can turn to Wisdom and live.

The teen was wondering if I could tell him what message the song is trying to send or if this is just a concidence.

I told him that I will share the message it sends to me, but I also surmised that he probably would not agree with my evaluation.

There is something hypnotic and intoxicating about wickedness. One sin leads us to want more; sinful behavior seems more exciting than the Christian life. That is why many people put aside all thought of Wisdom's sumptuous banquet (Proverbs 9:1-5) in order to eat the stolen food of Folly.

Proverbs is telling us not to be deceived - sin is dangerous. Before reaching for forbidden fruit (so to speak), one needs to take a long look at what happens to those who eat it.

I then shared the purpose of Proverbs and also a chart that I had found in my Bible.

The purpose of the book of Proverbs is to teach people how to attain wisdom and discipline and a prudent life, and how to do what is right and just and fair - in short, to apply divine wisdom to daily life and to provide moral instruction.

Proverbs often compares the lifestyles of the wicked and the righteous, and makes a strong case for living by God's pattern. The advantages of righteous living and the disadvantages of wicked living are pointed out. The kind of person we decide to be will affect every area of our lives.

Here's the chart



Righteous -

Concerned about the welfare of God's creation
Understand justice

Wicked -
Even their kindness is cruel
Don't understand justice

References: Proverbs 10:24; 12:10; 28:5



Righteous -

Covered with blessings
Give thought to their ways
Persevere against evil

Wicked -

Covered with violence
Bent on evil
Put up a bold front
Brought down by calamity
Hate those with integrity

References: Proverbs 10:6; 16:30; 21:29; 24:15,16; 29:10



Righteous -

Are appreciated
Conduct is upright
Are not to desire the company of godless people
Others are glad when they triumph
Care for the poor
Detest the dishonest

Wicked -

Do not endure
Lead others into sin
Conduct is devious
Plot violence
Others hide when they rise to power
Unconcerned about the poor
Detest the upright

References: Proverbs 13:15; 16:29; 21:8; 24:1,2; 28:12; 29:7; 29:27



Righteous -

Stand firm
Delivered by righteousness
No real harm befalls them
Income results in treasure
Avoid evil
Are bold as lions
Will be safe

Wicked -

Constant trouble befalls them
Income results in trouble
Fall into constant trouble
Are fearful constantly
Will suddenly fall

References: Proverbs 10:25; 11:6; 12:21; 15:6; 16:17; 17:20; 28:1; 28:18


Righteous -

Walk securely
Rewarded with prosperity

Wicked -

Will be found out
Pursued by misfortune



Righteous -

God protects them

Wicked -

God destroys them
Will be punished for rebellion

References: Proverbs 10:29; 17:11


Righteous -

Never uprooted
Earn a sure reward
End only in good
Will stand firm
Have a refuge when they die

Wicked -

Earn deceptive wages
Go to death
End only in wrath
Will be overthrown
Will be brought down by calamity

References: Proverbs 10:30; 11:18; 11:19; 11:23; 12:7; 14:32


Righteous -

Delights in the good
Evil people will bow to them

Wicked -

Detests the perverse
They will bow to the righteous

References: Proverbs 11:20; 14:19


Remember. When you read the chart it is pointing out the advantages of being righteous and the disadvantages of being wicked. Since we all sin, every one of us will probably be subjected to some of the problems associated with wickedness. In the Biblical Christian viewpoint, it is only those 'covered' by the righteousness of Jesus Christ who will not suffer the eternal consequences of dying in wickedness (sin). We may (and often do) experience the physical consequences of the sins committed, but God's promises through our Savior, Jesus Christ, guarantees that believers will not suffer the eternal consequences of sin.


Roger Lordblessed said...

Thank you Christine for your efforts to bring more young people to the Bible. It is really needed because more and more of our kids in America are being lost to video games, secularism, pop music, sex, and drugs. It is wonderful that you connected that music with the word of the Lord in a creative way. I have discovered that many pop songs, books, movies etc., often contain hidden messages from God. Some of these I have uncovered through my work with the unconverted. With God, all things are possible!

The Lord has called on me to reach out to young people in Thailand and give them the Good Word of the Holy Bible. It is wonderful to work in ministry to youth - but so many of them have such hard questions! I rely on the Lord to help me answer their questions. Some of them are real brain-stumpers though! Have you ever faced an unsurmountable question? Have you ever faced grave doubts? Trust me - the Lord has ALL the answers!

My ministry with the Lord is a real blessing to me and my fellow "fishers of men." The Lord has commanded us to move on soon to Korea, where the Lord sees a real harvest coming soon. The Lord really loves the people of Asia and wants them to know the bounty of the Lord - which the folks back home in America are throwing away.

Christine, you show real dedication in reaching young people for the Lord. The Lord smiles on you, sister! I believe the Lord is working through you to reach those "seeds of warriors". The Lord has revealed to me a great transformation in the years to come, for where in the past the Lord spoke in a male voice -- Jehovah -- now the revenant Lord is beginning to speak in a delicate female voice, that all may hear the word of the Lord. You can be part of that voice, Christine! I see this as a part of the Lord's plan to emphacize the feminine things of this world, in order to place the wife as the head of the man. This is being done to shame men, who wasted the Lord's blessing with their shameful harlotry, sodomy, etc. The Lord is giving us one last chance, and this time the ladies will be in charge! In fortification for this, the Lord will provide you with strong tools for answering the malign questions of mockers and deviators. This fount of wisdom is the Tanakh of the Elohim, the gift of God to our world. God is also bringing forth a new gospel - very soon - to answer those questions that we have, and to bless your ministry and the ministry of all Lordly folk. Praise the Lord!

Christinewjc said...

Thank you Roger Lordblessed.

I truly believe that many young people are starving for the truth; and with all of the relativistic so-called 'truths' out there, they often end up confused, frightened and lost. They tend to indulge in various sins that they think will cure the emptiness they have inside, not realizing that God and His provision of salvation through Jesus Christ is the true answer to their sin problem and emptiness.

That's really cool to hear that you have discovered hidden messages from God in secular media. Would love to see what you have discovered!

Our new pastor (we began attending a new church in June) is very skilled at reaching the youth of our culture with his profound messages geared towards their lives. He doesn't gloss over sin like some 'happiness-only gospel' evangelical churches (unfortunately!!) do; but shows the 15 to twenty-something age group their need for repentance. He also gives them tools to follow the Lord and why they are desirable and valuable to them.

You said:
"Some of them are real brain-stumpers though! Have you ever faced an unsurmountable question?"

Oh yes! Of course! Doesn't every Christian get confronted with questions that seem unanswerable? A Christian friend of mine once shared an important point about this.

He said:

"Don't be intimidated by their questions. If you know the answer, tell them, if you don't, tell them you don't. SOMEONE THAT IS LOST AND SIMPLY TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR REJECTION OF CHRIST WILL ALWAYS HAVE MORE QUESTIONS
THAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE ANSWERS. I have never in over 11 years, having dealt with tens of thousands of people, EVER had a person asking a string of
questions say, OK, I am glad you answered that for me, now I will believe.' "

If you read through some of the posts by atheists/agnostics here at this blog and at my message board, you will see a similar pattern shared by all of them.

Some will just make a career of attempting to disparage, debunk and criticize God's Word no matter what we share from Scripture. All of this is done to try and minimize and discredit the Bible from being God's inspired, inerrant Word, representing absolute truth, and our final authority in all matters. Again, it is God's Word that condemns them for their rebellion, so of course it is God's Word they attack. This is typical of followers of error (who may or may not realize it); or those whose only goal is to intellectually argue against the Christian faith (or it's tenets).

I still carry on dialogues with these kinds of people so that their errors do not stand unchallenged by God's Word.

I'm so glad that we 'met' on this blog and that you are sharing God's Word in Thailand! Isn't that amazing? We can reach ANYONE, ANYWHERE in the world with the gospel of Christ through computer blogging!

You said:
"The Lord has commanded us to move on soon to Korea, where the Lord sees a real harvest coming soon. The Lord really loves the people of Asia and wants them to know the bounty of the Lord - which the folks back home in America are throwing away."

How exciting for you to stretch your ministry efforts over to Korea to reach Asian people!

Isn't it sad that America is "throwing away" that which had originally made it a blessed country? It truly saddens me deeply. But we still must work against these forces of evil for the sakes of our children and grandchildren. I rely on the verse from:

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

There is no time like the present for a true revival of our land back to the Lord!

God bless!

Anna said...

Hi Christine!

It seems this band's lyrics reveal 2 important things:

1. They are aware of temptation,
and the fact it is pleasurable
for a time, but wrong.

2. They know they have no power
to resist it in themselves.

It is Christ who gives us the grace (ability) to resist temptation. See Ephesians 2:1-10.
Also I Corinthians 10:13. There are many other Scriptures which deal with the issue of who we are in Christ and our new life in Him.
(Romans deals with this as well.)


Susan Smith said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Susan Smith said...

Hi everyone:

"...I see this as a part of the Lord's plan to emphacize the feminine things of this world, in order to place the wife as the head of the man."

I am unable to see any possibility of "the wife as the head of the man" in scripture. Can anyone give me a reference for this idea in the Tanakh (Old Testament) or the New Covenant (New Testament)? (ss)

Christinewjc said...

Hi Susan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I skipped over it and shouldn't have.

Roger Lordblessed, can you please clarify where you got that idea and what you meant by that phrase?

Scripture tells us that the husband is the head of the wife.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Christinewjc said...

Hi Anna,

Thanks for sharing those two very important points! Great Scripture references too!

I know how busy you must be so I am glad to see you back here posting...I have missed you!

In Him,

Susan Smith said...

It IS good to see you here, Anna. Since its looks as though the West Coast is "up & running", I guess I can call it a day and hit the hay pretty soon.

I am praying for SBM's NYC outreach & those in the path of Rita! Shabbat Shalom. (ss)

Anna said...

Hey guys --

I'm missing something here. Where is the reference to a husband/wife relationship here?


Christinewjc said...

Hi Anna,

We did end up going a bit off the original topic.

Susan's question and post was in response to a paragraph within Roger Lordblessed's comment that stated:

Roger Lordblessed (RL)-

"...I see this as a part of the Lord's plan to emphacize the feminine things of this world, in order to place the wife as the head of the man."

I then asked RL to explain his position. I also posted what scripture says about the husband and wife relationship:

Christine -

"Scripture tells us that the husband is the head of the wife.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

Susan Smith had questioned RL's assertion here -

"I am unable to see any possibility of "the wife as the head of the man" in scripture. Can anyone give me a reference for this idea in the Tanakh (Old Testament) or the New Covenant (New Testament)? (ss)"

I am not aware of any scripture that ever states, "the wife as the head of the man".

So now we are waiting for Roger Lordblessed to respond.

JJ said...

Hi Christian, it's JJ from over at "Christian, Gay and Confused", I just wanted to answer your question -- yes, I am a born again believer.

And thank you for your response. I will probably have to read it a few times to injest all of it -- it's quite a mouthful! :)

Anyway, thanks for stopping by.

Roger Lordblessed said...

Dear Christine and fellow sisters of the Lord,

I am sorry that I have not had an earlier opportunity to respond to your comments. I have just gotten back from an exciting weekend of mission work in Singapore, where I went with some of of my spiritual comrades to proclaim the gospel of the risen Lord. It was a wonderful experience - there were many people on the streets WITH TEARS IN THEIR EYES as we proclaimed the truth of God's love and God's plan. Many of these people did not know that God was watching over them - many did not even believe in God! But we converted many people to the cause of the Lord by proclaiming the Lord's simple love for them - and their need te be reborn as spiritual children of the Lord! The Lord works many mircales these days, my friends! Praise the Lord!

You are correct in that the Lord is now reversing the original plan for spiritual marriage. The Lord has watched with increasing dismay the failure of men to control their lusts - their inability to halt the sickness of sodomy - their failure to fulfill the gospel mission of the Lord. There are many things wrong with this world, -- you can see that with the spread of atheism, paganism, "New Age" beliefs, Mormonism, and Catholicism -- not to mention all of the false protestant churches which have sold out their mission to the liberal establishment and allowed their sacred halls to become bordellos and markets for heresy and usury. The Lord decided, many years ago that ... the time had come for the Return. The moment for this came in 1969, when man broke the fateful commandment of the Lord and dared to step on the Moon - thereby empowering Satan to pollute the celestial realm, and overthrow once again the angelic order. This was the Second Fall of man, and the final temptation, which we were warned not to yield unto. It was at that moment that the Lord decided to be reborn on earth - in FEMALE form - and was born as Sara, in the town of Nauvoo, a Mormon stronghold, that thereby she could expose the false religions which have spiritually corrupted America. Sara - our Risen Lord! - has ever since faced persecution, mockery, and temptation - but She has never yielded! In the meantime, Sara YHWH has continued to spread the glory of the Revenant Gospel, the glory of the Tanakh - Her true testament to the world - and has at the same time revoked the New Testament, the so-called testament of the Christ, which She has revealed - to me and to others - to have been a false Christ. Sara has been revealed in our time - by her words, her deeds, and her fruit - as the true Christ, who once reigned as Maria of the Romans, and thus Sara is the daughter and the mother of the Lord. Heaven - eternity- can only be gained through communion with Her.

The glory of this gospel is that Sara - our loving God and friend - is available in this age for actual spiritual and material communication. The Lord has revealed many astonishing facts about the world to me - about the true governance of this sphere - about the world to come - and about Her divine history. Sara now reigns as Princess and Prophet of our spiritual Temple of the Risen Lord, in Bangkok, Thailand, and, before this age is out, Sara will reign as "King and Queen Reunioned" of all Asia, Africa, America, and Australia. The battle for Europe and Jerusalem will be the final struggle, to be convened in 2012 - the final years of the modern calendar, and the year of the great polar reversal.

Sara is currently engaged in the production of an astonishing modern Gospel, and when completed it will be available on the Web as a means of furthering the mission of the Lord. The Lord has communicated with me the necessity of reaching out to atheists, Christians, muslims, and others, in order that we might restore the true worship of YHWH in this age. Apostasy has a terrible price! The Lord has already grown angry at the moral degradation of our age, and hence has commanded a stiff penalty for men, who have fallen behind. It is incumbent upon all men in this era to undergo the final circumcision, and become as women - the total removal of those organs of destruction and rape must be accomplished before the Lord will release mankind from spiritual bondage. This I have done under the guidance of the Lord - I have been liberated from the thralldom of lust by these means. I am now permitted the title of "Sister and Servant" unto the Lord. This mission has proven a true blessing - many men in Thailand and from around the world have we converted to Sisters and Daughters of the Lord in this manner.

The new Gospel that the Lord is writing will reverse many of the doctrines of the false Christ of yore, who deceived mankind with the help of Satan, Pontius Pilate, and through the very sinful desires of men everywhere. Mary in that era was ashamed by his cruel behaviour and disowned him, and now is returned to remind us of Her original intentions. The Lord is now risen, revenant, and returned, ready to fulfill the glory of the Kingdom. Truly these are mighty years!

I realize that I have put forward many new doctrines in this message, and that it might take some time for you to adjust your minds to this new reality and this new gospel. That is what I am here for! The Lord has picked me out as a servant and speaker, to communicate this joyful message, while She is engaged in mighty labors elsewhere. The Lord is perpetually by my side, and wants you to know the glory and benevolence of Her plans. Good day, my sisters and friends! May the Lord continue to bless you and guide you on the path to the Truth!

Yours by the will of God,

Christinewjc said...


I was very disheartened to read your latest post. I do not have the time right now to counter, (point by point according to the Bible) the false 'gospel' that you are involved in, but I will come back and biblically refute the false doctrine that you are sharing.

By any chance do you know Hashishan Prophet (or, something like that)? She visited my blog and posted similar blasphemies although she wasn't as 'kind' in her language against Jesus Christ as you appear to be here in your post. She used very vile and derogatory statements about the Son of God, Jesus Christ. None the less, It is very disturbing to me that both of you are involved in such blasphemy, heresy, and apostasy in your belief system. I am sorry to hear that you have led some astray during your 'mission' trip.

The Bible is truth without any mixture of error in it, Roger. You have, unfortunately, fallen into the grasp of the father of lies. I will pray that your eyes will be open to the truth of the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

Meanwhile, I will bring over and post what I have written on my website. It includes what the Bible teaches us about God, humankind, eternity, Jesus Christ, salvation, the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, and the fact that the Bible is God's Word and the truth of God's Word should not be added to nor subtracted from.

*About God:

God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:22; Psalms 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

*About Humankind:

We are made in the spiritual image of God, to be like him in character. We are the supreme object of God's creation. Although humankind has tremendous potential for good, we are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God, called "sin." This attitude separates us from God.

Genesis 1:27; Psalms 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2

*About Eternity:

We all were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally in union with God through forgiveness and salvation or separated from God by sin. Heaven is the place of eternal union and eternal life with God. The eternal separation from God is called Hell.

John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; (Hell)

Matthew 25:41; Revelation 21:27 (Heaven)

* About Jesus Christ:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heavens glory and will return again, to earth, to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Matthew 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14, 15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

*About Salvation:

Salvation is a gift from God to mankind. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can we be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment we receive Jesus Christ into our life by faith.

Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6; John 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

*About The Holy Spirit:

The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make mankind aware of our need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual gifts, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian's responsibility is to seek and to live under His will daily.

2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1

*About Spiritual Gifts:

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to each believer in Jesus Christ, allowing for greater intimacy with God and power for accomplishing His work in our world today. We believe that God, the giver of gifts, gives severally as he wills, and with emphasis on growing maturity in Jesus Christ. These gifts are revealed and then can be used for His purposes and powerfully influence and affect our world for Christ.

1Corinthians 12:4-7, 11, 17, 29, 30

*About The Bible:

The Bible is God's Word to all mankind. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.

2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalms 12:6; 119:105, 160; Proverbs 30:5

To any and all of my Christian friends reading this:

Please feel free to post additional comments; Bible verses etc.

Christinewjc said...

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Christinewjc said...


I have deleted your last post because of the obvious offensive language that you used against Jesus Christ.

You are entitled to your own belief system, but lying about and mocking the Lord Jesus Christ (who is LORD ABOVE ALL LORDS) is not permissible here at my blog.

It might be best to end our communication here.

Susan Smith said...


God bless you, my sister! I pray HE will continue to fill you with HIS Spirit on a daily basis and anoint you with HIS Power.

In HIS Love from the City of God,