Saturday, September 02, 2006

The Spiritual Significance of this Cultural Battle

DL Foster wrote an excellent essay which he entitled, Want to Stop AIDS? over at his Perspectives in Motion blogspot. I agree with him that too many pastors these days do not want to "offend" anyone by telling the truth about the sin and irresponsibility of rampant sexual immorality, including homosexual behavior.

We all can see, quite clearly, the physical problems that have resulted in an explosion of sexually transmitted diseases and premature death through the sin of homosexual behavior, as well as heterosexual immorality. But are we paying any attention to the spiritual significance of this cultural battle?

What especially caught my eye over at DL Foster's blog was the arrogance of a commenter who happens to think that the ASA (American Sociological Association) is such a "prestigious" moral authority on the subject of homosexuality and anyone (or any opinions, findings, results etc.) that doesn't agree with their homosexual-behavior-affirming doctrine, should be discredited.

This brings to my mind the Bible verses that proves that the ASA (or, any other humanistic organization) can never trump the sovereignty of God, the absolute truth of His Word, or the moral implications therein.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I have posted the following essay before, and it is available in the archives, but I wanted to post it again. In light of DL's excellent article, the gay-behavior-affirming attitudes of Christian commenters like Boo and Deb, the idea that "discrimination" policies should trump the religious beliefs of Christians which is derived from Biblical truth, as well as the recent signing of SB 1441 in California, I thought it might be advantageous for the new crowd currently posting here to read this in order to find out why homosexual behavior cannot be condoned by Bible-based, born-again Christians.


Volume II Issue #8 AUGUST, 2003

The Days Of Lot

"Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed." Luke 17:28-30


While I am painfully aware that this month's commentary is not without controversy, I have struggled long and hard with how to present it. Unfortunately, there is just no other way than to just get it out. If you are offended by it, then good. I hope that you will search the Scriptures to see if these things are so (Acts 17:11). Now that I have your attention, let me just say that I am going to do my best to expose this darkness, but share the love and mercy of Christ as well. I am also going to use a lot of Scripture, as the Holy Spirit needs to be able to do His job through the understanding of His Word.

The story of Abraham and Lot should be familiar to everyone, however I will refresh your memory on the details. Lot was Abraham's nephew and they had left Ur together in search of the Promised Land. Because God had prospered them both with huge herds of cattle and flocks of sheep, the land began to be too small for their needs. At that point they agreed to separate and each find room for their herds, flocks and families. Abraham let Lot choose first and he chose the plain of Sodom to dwell in. As time would go on, it would become apparent that Lot had made a poor choice.

The Bible does not have a lot to say about Sodom other than that it was very wicked.

Genesis 18:20-21

" And the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave,

21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know."

We aren't told just what this grievous sin is until the next chapter...

Genesis 19...

1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.

2 And he said, "Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way."
And they said, "No, but we will spend the night in the open square."


3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house.

5 And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally."

6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him,

7 and said, "Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly!

8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof."

9 And they said, "Stand back!" Then they said, "This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them." So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.

10 But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.

11 And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.

As I said, the Bible doesn't say much about Sodom, but what it does say is loud and clear. There are days worth of study in this passage friends.

Why was Lot sitting at the gate? This signified his high position on the city council. Lot was tolerant of the rampant sin in the city.

What an apt picture of our day and age friends. This is our first clue to why Jesus pointed out the days of Lot as a model for the time of His return. However the second, and most glaring, description of Sodom is that it was filled with the sin of homosexuality. The men of Sodom wanted the 'men' that had come to Lot's house. In fact, they wanted them so bad that they tried to break down the door to get them, and, according to their own words, they wanted them just to have sex with them. They would not even accept the offer of Lot's daughters. Nope. They burned in lust for the men that had come to town.

So where does that leave us today?

Jesus likened the days of his return unto the days of Lot. What do we know about the days of Lot other than the rampant homosexuality that marked it? Isn't it odd that we do not know much more about it? I do not think so. In fact, I believe that it is exactly what Jesus was referring to.

The homosexual agenda has been pushing at us for decades with a marked increase in recent years. MTV has been a big factor in pushing it on shows like The Real World and Road Rules. Numerous TV shows, plays and even music stars have been instrumental in advance the homosexual lifestyle upon the world. However, it really seems that there has been a definitive increase in recent weeks. It is as if a line has been crossed, or a dam has been breached and the flood of homosexuality has begun to fill the world. I believe that the dam that broke was the Church.

The big news recently was the appointment of the so-called "Gay Bishop". Deluded statements like, "Once again Jesus has turned Good Friday into Easter Sunday" (quoted by Gene Robinson on the day of his appointment), and "We have come to the conclusion as a Church that homosexuality is not wrong. It is just another of the many ways that God expresses himself through man." (in a statement made days earlier regarding the so-called 'Heresy Meeting' days before the appointment by a Episcopalian Church leader).

I do not think that many folks realize the spiritual significance of this story. This should never have even come up for discussion. This was the last frontier for the homosexual agenda friends and now it has been reached! The moral implications not withstanding, the legal implications are going to be very grave indeed. The door is wide open for the homosexual lifestyle to permeate every aspect of society now.

You may have noticed that right on the heels of the bishop appointment were a flurry of TV shows on both cable networks and regular television (to use a phrase lightly). Many more are being advertised for the upcoming season as well. You see, that is the whole point. Now that Satan has officially sanctioned the homosexual lifestyle in the Church, what is holding back the same agenda in the world? Every church is now going to be expected, probably forced, to allow homosexuals to be placed in ministry positions. We can not only expect the flood to fill the obvious demonic controlled areas of society, but now the Church as well. Surely Jesus is coming for his Bride!

Is there anything wrong with homosexual sex? Many today actually believe that it is fine, if homosexuals just keep it to themselves. Well, what does the Word of God have to say about it?

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

It seems pretty clear what God thinks about the act of gay sex. But that was Old Testament some would say...

Romans 1 gives us an overall description of the fate of those who reject God and His salvation through Jesus Christ...

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting.

And later we read that homosexuals will not enter in to Heaven unless they repent of their homosexual sins and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Again in I Timothy 1:10

10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.

I think the Bible is pretty clear, don't you?

The problem isn't with homosexuality exclusively. You can replace that sin with any from the list, it simply doesn't matter. Sin is sin is sin! That is the key to this whole thing. However, the elusion to the days of Lot by Jesus Christ, and the delusion that is spreading in the world today are unmistakably linked to the homosexual lifestyle. Thus it is the issue that needs to be dealt with today.

As followers of and believers in Jesus Christ we must be compassionate and seek every opportunity to extend the Gospel to all sinners. Homosexuals do not need to be reminded of their specific sins, but rather that their sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus, should they want it and confess that Jesus is Lord.

For those who are watching the skies and looking for Christ's return, this impending flood is inching oh so much closer. The great rescuing of the Church is surely nigh. Keep the faith saints, and do not bend on the essentials of the faith. The degree of sin being displayed may be perceived as worse than any other, but it is still just sin. We were all guilty before we received the grace of God. Don't forget that God dearly loves the sinner and does not have any joy in the death of the wicked. He loves the homosexual just as much as any other, so much that he sent his Son to die for them too...

Written by Jerry Cesario


"[b]ut rather that their sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus, should they want it and confess that Jesus is Lord."

That part from one of Jerry's statements describes the Christian, ex-gay person. Each story is unique, but the results are the same. They had their sins forgiven through the blood of Jesus because they confessed and repented of them and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior in their lives.

I think that sometimes the people who label themselves as "gay Christians" only go part way in their allegiance to Christ and the gospel. He/she accepts Jesus as Savior, but doesn't go on to the sanctification part of salvation. Confession is one thing, and repentance is another. Repentance means turning away from former sin and not willingly participating in it anymore. In order for Jesus to be Lord in our lives, we need to give Him our entire being...including heart, mind, soul and body. We spend the rest of our lives aligning our spirit with the leading of the indwelled Holy Spirit of God. It is then that His strength to ward off the wiles and temptations of Satan become our strength!

Those who think that they haven't the strength nor ability to resist powerful, sexual urges and emotions towards the same sex are correct. They probably can't. Not alone, that is. But God's Word tells us how they can achieve it:

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Phl 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


This is the strength that has been found by ex-gay Christians! They are sanctified through Christ's strength, and the Holy Spirit's leading, hour by hour, day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year for the rest of their lives!

I have heard absolutely amazing testimonies by ex-gay people about how they were completely delivered from homosexual behavior identity. This is an amazing transformation that cannot be denied!

Unfortunately, many homosexuals have been caught up into the lies and deceptions of Satan and their reprobate minds have convinced them that they can't be released from such bondage. In fact, you could take any type of sin and use such a view as an excuse.

The current cultural battle that is going on is not just about our "flesh and blood" existence. Powerful forces are at work in the spiritual realm that can end up having either a detrimental (by rejecting Christ) or positive (accepting Christ as Lord and Savior) result regarding the eternal destination of individuals involved in the deception of homosexual behavior.


I thought this part from Jerry's essay was very significant:


"I do not think that many folks realize the spiritual significance of this story. This should never have even come up for discussion. This was the last frontier for the homosexual agenda friends and now it has been reached! The moral implications not withstanding, the legal implications are going to be very grave indeed. The door is wide open for the homosexual lifestyle to permeate every aspect of society now." [bold mine]


In today's society, people are more apt to be deceived into thinking that homosexual behavior is not sin. The danger in that is that they are being seriously misled about this issue. And, to the detriment of their eternal souls, the result may be that they are more inclined not to confess it AS sin in their lives.

It is more obvious to all of us that the sin of murder, if NOT confessed, would keep someone out of the kingdom of God. However, people are often misled to believe that a "little white lie" or "stealing something small" or "homosexual behavior" is not as serious a sin, thus doesn't matter. Not true, is it? As Jerry pointed out in his article, "sin is sin is sin." Wouldn't holding back the confession of a specific sin on our souls keep us from being forgiven for it? God gave each of us a conscience to know right from wrong. What society dictates as NOT being wrong doesn't escape the fact that the Bible SAYS it is wrong and needs to be repented of in order to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Satan has placed a strong delusion among people today to get them to think that they are 'saved' when what they are doing (i.e. via the gay-behavior affirming churches) is falsely 'sanctifying' relationships that are anathema to Holy God.

The book of Jude warns us about heresy and apostasy infiltrating the churches. As the "Way of the Master" book points out so very clearly, those that reject clear biblical teachings and embrace false doctrine and error, end up becoming false converts. It was evident then, as it is now.

Jude 3-23 (NLT)
The Danger of False Teachers

3 Dearly loved friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the truth of the Good News.* God gave this unchanging truth once for all time to his holy people. 4 I say this because some godless people have wormed their way in among you, saying that God's forgiveness allows us to live immoral lives. The fate of such people was determined long ago, for they have turned against our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 I must remind you-and you know it well-that even though the Lord* rescued the whole nation of Israel from Egypt, he later destroyed every one of those who did not remain faithful. 6 And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the day of judgment. 7 And don't forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with sexual immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and are a warning of the eternal fire that will punish all who are evil.

8 Yet these false teachers, who claim authority from their dreams, live immoral lives, defy authority, and scoff at the power of the glorious ones.* 9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse Satan of blasphemy, but simply said, "The Lord rebuke you." (This took place when Michael was arguing with Satan about Moses' body.) 10 But these people mock and curse the things they do not understand. Like animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and they bring about their own destruction. 11 How terrible it will be for them! For they follow the evil example of Cain, who killed his brother. Like Balaam, they will do anything for money. And like Korah, they will perish because of their rebellion.

12 When these people join you in fellowship meals celebrating the love of the Lord, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you.* They are shameless in the way they care only about themselves. They are like clouds blowing over dry land without giving rain, promising much but producing nothing. They are like trees without fruit at harvesttime. They are not only dead but doubly dead, for they have been pulled out by the roots. 13 They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the dirty foam of their shameful deeds. They are wandering stars, heading for everlasting gloom and darkness.

14 Now Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said,


"Look, the Lord is coming
with thousands of his holy ones.
15
He will bring the people of the world
to judgment.
He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things
they have done in rebellion
and of all the insults that godless sinners
have spoken against him."*


16 These people are grumblers and complainers, doing whatever evil they feel like. They are loudmouthed braggarts, and they flatter others to get favors in return.


A Call to Remain Faithful
17 But you, my dear friends, must remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you, 18 that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable. 19 Now they are here, and they are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They live by natural instinct because they do not have God's Spirit living in them.

20 But you, dear friends, must continue to build your lives on the foundation of your holy faith. And continue to pray as you are directed by the Holy Spirit.* 21 Live in such a way that God's love can bless you as you wait for the eternal life that our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy is going to give you. 22 Show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. There are still others to whom you need to show mercy, but be careful that you aren't contaminated by their sins.* [bold mine]


A Prayer of Praise
24 And now, all glory to God, who is able to keep you from stumbling, and who will bring you into his glorious presence innocent of sin and with great joy. 25 All glory to him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Yes, glory, majesty, power, and authority belong to him, in the beginning, now, and forevermore. Amen.


Footnotes:
1:3 Greek to contend for the faith.
1:5 Some manuscripts read Jesus.
1:8 The glorious ones are probably evil angels.
1:12 Or they are contaminants among you, or they are stains.
1:14 The quotation comes from the Apocrypha: Enoch 1:9.
1:15 The quotation comes from the Apocrypha: Enoch 1:9.
1:20 Greek Pray in the Holy Spirit.
1:23 Greek mercy, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh.

*******
Who cares more about the salvation of the homosexual's soul? Those liberal, homosexual-behavior-affirming pastors, preachers, laypeople, and "friends" who only teach the "love of Christ" without warning of the judgment to come if they don't repent? Or is it those Bible-based, Jesus honoring and loving born-again Christian believers who take the warnings of Jude seriously and share such warning with those lost souls who are in peril?

23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. There are still others to whom you need to show mercy, but be careful that you aren't contaminated by their sins.

37 comments:

Boo said...

I think I may have figured out what your problem is, Christine. You're so eager to be in a "war" and do "battle" against anyone you disagree with that when the battlelust comes on, the rational part of your mind just seems to shut down. You can just toss nuance and caution and critical thinking out the window, cause when you're a Warrior For God, who needs 'em?

"What especially caught my eye over at DL Foster's blog was the arrogance of a commenter who happens to think that the ASA (American Sociological Association) is such a "prestigious" moral authority on the subject of homosexuality and anyone (or any opinions, findings, results etc.) that doesn't agree with their homosexual-behavior-affirming doctrine, should be discredited.

This brings to my mind the Bible verses that proves that the ASA (or, any other humanistic organization) can never trump the sovereignty of God, the absolute truth of His Word, or the moral implications therein."

Did you actually read through the comments and think about them, or did you just see a "homosexual activist" and let loose the jihad within? Try hard to turn your critical thinking skills back on and follow me here: the commenter didn't claim that the ASA was a moral authority on homosexuality. The commenter pointed out that the link Dani provided to try and prove how evil and disgusting homosexuals are came from possibly the single most discredited "researcher" in America. Paul Cameron was kicked out of the American Psychological Association specifically for fraudulent research claims about homosexuals. (He likes to claim he resigned, but APA bylaws do not allow resignations from members under investigation) He has been disavowed by every professional social science body, and the last time he tried to offer "expert" testimony at trial the judge called him a liar. He was refuted not because people disagree with his morals but because he makes claims which are untrue and deliberately twists his own and others' research to engage in fraud.

DL Foster's response is quite telling:

"I havent asked you to believe me, I simply said I KNOW FOR MYSELF that Paul Cameron is telling the truth on what I have read."

Since DL also fancies himself a Warrior For God, he doesn't have to care about truth, facts, logic, or any of that evil PC nonsense. It's true because he just knows it, even if it isn't. It's true because it can be used against homosexuals, and since they are The Enemy we have to Fight in the War, lying about them is ok because it's done for God.

If you haven't noticed, Christine, DL is psychotic. Read his testimony some time. He thinks his television talks to him. Even Exodus has denounced him.

If you want to get gay men's attention to combat AIDS, lying about them isn't the way to do it, even if God speaks out of your tv and tells you to. If God is truly on your side, why do you need to lie anyway? Shouldn't the truth be enough?

More DL:

"If you choose to believe that the experts have "discredited" Cameron, then that's your matrix world, doc.
Not mine. You seem angry that I dont want to accept the so called authority of the so called experts.
Who died and made them god of the psychological universe?"

Yes, why on earth should we listen to people who actually know what they are talking about? Especially when the Bible already contains numerous psychological and sociological research studies on homosexuals. (They're in a hard-to-find part of the Apocrypha, peer-reviewed by Pharisees) Statistics are a whole lot easier when you just make them up. Btw, did you know that 100% of Christians in California who are named Christine like to go down to the pound and shoot BBs at little puppies? It's true because I know in my heart that it is true, by which I mean I just made it up because I am a Warrior For God and lying about you will make you look bad and me look better, Christine.

The problem with abstinence-only education is that it doesn't work:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48509-2005Mar18.html

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/stateevaluations/index.htm

Try to take off the Warrior For God hat and put on the critical thinking hat and actually go look at what those evaluations show, especially the results in the second link about the effect of abstinence-only education on sexual behavior (zilch, except people in that group are less likely to use protection). These evaluations were reached by "experts" who actually "studied" the "facts" tho, rather than some guy just saying something he knew in his heart, so it could be an evil Satanic conspiracy.

It especially doesn't work for gay kids. If you tell gay kids they shouldn't have sex until marriage, and btw, they can't get married, it'll take them all of two seconds to realize you're telling them they can't have sex ever, and from that point on they're not going to listen to anything you say.

The theological stuff we'll just have to agree to disagree on, but Jerry Cesario's claims about the ramifications of Eugene Robinson's consecration as bishop are remarkably inane:

"The moral implications not withstanding, the legal implications are going to be very grave indeed. The door is wide open for the homosexual lifestyle to permeate every aspect of society now."

Exactly what "legal implications" do the Epicopal Church's consecration of a gay bishop have? Last I heard, the Episcopal Church is not the legislative authority of the US or any state or locality.

"You may have noticed that right on the heels of the bishop appointment were a flurry of TV shows on both cable networks and regular television (to use a phrase lightly). Many more are being advertised for the upcoming season as well. You see, that is the whole point. Now that Satan has officially sanctioned the homosexual lifestyle in the Church, what is holding back the same agenda in the world? Every church is now going to be expected, probably forced, to allow homosexuals to be placed in ministry positions. We can not only expect the flood to fill the obvious demonic controlled areas of society, but now the Church as well. Surely Jesus is coming for his Bride!"

Yes, Hollywood television producers were waiting with baited breath for a consecrated gay bishop as the green light to produce shows with gay themes. I guess Jerry KNOWS FOR HIMSELF that his claim is true, no matter how silly it is. And of course churches will soon be forced to place gay ministers, because as everyone knows, Robinson's consecration has overturned the First Amendment. I KNOW FOR MYSELF that it's true. My microwave told me so.

"Is there anything wrong with homosexual sex? Many today actually believe that it is fine, if homosexuals just keep it to themselves. Well, what does the Word of God have to say about it?

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Well, if that's the Word of God and you follow the Word of God, then I have a question: how many gay men have you put to death? Or are you one of those cafeteria Christians who ignores God's clear commandments when it suits you? There have to be rocks lying around California, what are you waiting for?

Boo said...

Since Satan is still conspiring to deprive me of html skills, go to

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications

click on "by topic"

go to "select by topic"

select "reports manuels and monographs"

and go down to:

"Five Years of Abstinence-Only-Until-Marriage Education: Assessing the Impact"

Then take off the battle mentality and read.

Christinewjc said...

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."


Boo: "Well, if that's the Word of God and you follow the Word of God, then I have a question: how many gay men have you put to death? Or are you one of those cafeteria Christians who ignores God's clear commandments when it suits you? There have to be rocks lying around California, what are you waiting for?"

The moral laws in Leviticus were meant as a deterrent, much like other death penalty laws.

The added part of the verse, "their blood shall be upon them" reveals the fact that such behavior often leads to "you will reap what you sow." "Rock throwing" Christians as your filled-with-evil mind just spewed serves as a not-so-subtle example of the hatred you have for your fellow "bretheren." Because homosexuals ignore God's warnings, admonitions and pleading in the Bible to avoid sexual perversion, they are doing all that is necessary to themselves and infecting their own blood, resulting in the inevitable downward spiral to disease and death.

The trouble with you, Boo, is that you see everything through "humanistic eyes." This is why the spiritual significance of my post was lost from your own mind.

The Bible describes a person like you:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

The "legal implications" concern many denominations of churches. Jerry's piece was written in 2003, and many of the "predictions," if you will, that he made in the essay have since intensified and expanded. Denominations are splitting over the homosexual-behavior-affirming cultural battle. You think that's not important or significant?

You have culturally biased blinders on, Boo. And the more you rant and rave, the clearer this becomes to the people reading here. You have your pagan friends who post and agree with your views. I have my Christian friends who post and agree with the Biblical views of God's absolute truth that I present.

You demonstrate who comes first in your life every time you write. It is YOU who comes first. Not the Lord Jesus Christ or His Word, the Bible. That is your decision and choice. But I'm not going to sit here and change the truth so that it matches up with what you perceive as "reality."

You may elevate yourself because you think you have "better critical thinking" skills than I. Well then, have at it! But intellectual skill will never trump the timeless wisdom offered to mankind through God's Word. I don't have to cite the verses that tell us that. Hopefully, you are aware of them. But being spiritually discerned causes you to focus on the physical, materialistic, here and now portion of life while ignoring the spiritual implications of the choices you make within your sphere of influence. It is painfully obvious that this is why you always come off as an angry and bitter person. And, calling DL Foster "psychotic" was just plain, heartless arrogance and is an evaluation that you are obviously not properly equipped to make.

Everyone knows that in the court rooms of America, anyone can come up with their own "expert" witnesses to discredit another person's "findings." That judge was probably a liberal left loonie who is in with the gay activist lobby big time. That's how "gay" marriage came to be in Massachusetts. It was a decision made by a lunatic judge who arrogantly and unjustifiably presumed that her thoughts "are higher than God's thoughts" as written in the Bible. Worst of all, her decision was based on a lie!

About AIDS prevention. I will have to do the research to find an article to back up my next claim, but it is a fact that one nation in Africa did use abstinence and monogamy in order to greatly slow down the epidemic of HIV transmission there. The reason we don't hear much about it? Mainstream media bias.

Finally, you think you have figured out my problem?

I think I have figured out what your problem is, Boo. You need to repent and re-dedicate your life to Christ.

Boo said...

"The moral laws in Leviticus were meant as a deterrent, much like other death penalty laws."

So why are you flouting this law by not killing male homosexuals?

"The added part of the verse, "their blood shall be upon them" reveals the fact that such behavior often leads to "you will reap what you sow.""

Actually, blood being "upon" someone means who has responsibility for their death. In this case, it says whoever kills a male homosexual is blameless before God, because the "blood" i.e. blame is upon the male homosexual.

"The "legal implications" concern many denominations of churches. Jerry's piece was written in 2003, and many of the "predictions," if you will, that he made in the essay have since intensified and expanded. Denominations are splitting over the homosexual-behavior-affirming cultural battle. You think that's not important or significant?"

Of course it's significant. It's the biggest single issue currently facing the church. It just doesn't have any legal implications. The church doesn't make law.

"The trouble with you, Boo, is that you see everything through "humanistic eyes." This is why the spiritual significance of my post was lost from your own mind."

No, I just have a few spiritual disagreements with you, and as I said, that's something we may just have to agree to disagree on. I believe that true spirituality isn't backed up with factual lies like phony gay health statistics, but that may be another spiritual disagreement we have, I don't know.

"You have culturally biased blinders on, Boo. And the more you rant and rave, the clearer this becomes to the people reading here. You have your pagan friends who post and agree with your views. I have my Christian friends who post and agree with the Biblical views of God's absolute truth that I present."

Because your definition of a Christian is whoever agrees with you and your definition of a pagan or false Christian is whoever disagrees with you.

"You may elevate yourself because you think you have "better critical thinking" skills than I. Well then, have at it! But intellectual skill will never trump the timeless wisdom offered to mankind through God's Word. I don't have to cite the verses that tell us that. Hopefully, you are aware of them. But being spiritually discerned causes you to focus on the physical, materialistic, here and now portion of life while ignoring the spiritual implications of the choices you make within your sphere of influence."

Nope, critical thinking just helps you to evaluate whether the factual claims made in support of your arguments are accurate or not. The Kingdom of God will not be built on lies, Christine.

"And, calling DL Foster "psychotic" was just plain, heartless arrogance and is an evaluation that you are obviously not properly equipped to make."

DL by his own admission hears voices. Psychosis is clinically defined as an imbalance in the way one perceives reality, including but not limited to auditory hallucinations.

"Everyone knows that in the court rooms of America, anyone can come up with their own "expert" witnesses to discredit another person's "findings." That judge was probably a liberal left loonie who is in with the gay activist lobby big time."

War! Battle! Fight! There is no truth, there is only what helps The Cause!!!

Would you like a specific example of Paul Cameron's duplicity? Cameron published a study in May 2006 entitled “Children of Homosexuals And Transsexuals More Apt To Be Homosexual” He did his "sampling" by purchasing three books wherein children of LGBTs describe their lives growing up, and compared the total number of children who were gay to the number who were straight, claiming that this revealed a higher percentage of children of LGBT couples turn out gay than children of straight couples. He claimed this as evidence that if gay couple adopt children, they will be likely to make the children gay. Of course, he didn't mention the fact that almost all of the kids in those books were the biological children of LGBTs so there are no legitimate conclusions to draw about adoption from them.

Oh, but it gets even better. The author of one of the three books had this to say:

"In fact, I had made a point of having a roughly even number of straight kids and second generation [gay, bisexual or transgender – ed.] kids so that both views would be evenly represented in the book. In other words, because of the goals of my book, I deliberately aimed to have 50% of the kids interviewed to be queer. Not because it is statistically reflective of the population, but to give it balance of perspective."

In other words, Cameron claimed her book was statisically representative of the sexual orientations of children of LGBT couples, even though the author deliberately set out NOT to get a statistically representative group.

When Cameron claims the book was statisically representative even though it wasn't (a point the author makes in the book, which he supposedly read), he is lying. When he publishes this claim in a study, he is engaging in fraud. Cameron does this sort of thing in literally every single study he has ever done. That is not a matter of opinion, or bias, or political correctness. That is a cold, hard, fact.

Don't take my word for it tho, read for yourself. Everything is properly sourced:

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,012.htm

"About AIDS prevention. I will have to do the research to find an article to back up my next claim, but it is a fact that one nation in Africa did use abstinence and monogamy in order to greatly slow down the epidemic of HIV transmission there. The reason we don't hear much about it? Mainstream media bias."

That country wouldn't be Uganda, would it?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/25/224215/562

"In 2005, 130,000 Ugandans got infected compared to 70,000 in 2003."-- Dr Kihumuro Apuuli, the Uganda Aids Commission (UAC) Director General

Now what was it that happened in Uganda in 2003... hm... oh yeah, that's the year they switched from abstinence-emphasis to abstinence-only. Before that they had a program called ABC- Abstinence, Be faithful, or use a Condom.

See Christine, abstinence is a good thing, and people should do it. And once we have gay marriage, everyone should be abstinent until marriage. But not everyone's going to do what they should do, and if they don't know about back-ups like condoms, they're going to get AIDS and die. And that's not good. Every responsible sex education program includes an emphasis on abstinence. I defy you to find me any operating public school sex education program that doesn't. But you need more than that, or it doesn't work.

"Finally, you think you have figured out my problem?"

I think you've just demonstrated your problem. War!!! To Battle!!!

DL Foster said...

Christine,
You are a brave woman to talk to such an educated fool.

They despise anything that doesnt affirm their sin.

Like I said conversing with a fool (and a discredited one at that) is the ultimate act of bravery.

Be blessed.

Dani said...

Hi Christine - Great post as usual.

What is the deal with people like Deb and Boo? How decieved can some people be when the TRUTH is right in front of them?

Simple - They choose to be willfully ignorant to satisfy their own lusts.

I left this comment for DL Foster as well, but I wanted to hear your take on it:

If these homosexuals really believe that they are "saved" - where is their place in the kingdom of heaven?

We know that 1 Corinthians 6:8-10 says - “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Can you be a true follower of Christ and still openly and proudly live a sexually immoral life?

Once saved always saved? Or can you loose your salvation for practicing perversion? Or perhaps there was never a real conversion to begin with?

I wonder these things because I would sure hate to spend eternity with a bunch of "gay" Christians.

Take Care & God Bless!

Christinewjc said...

Hi DL,

Thank you so much for coming over to my blog and saying what you did in support of my post and comments. I really appreciated reading that!

In the case with Boo, perhaps I am more of a glutton for verbal abuse! But I'm willing to take it in order to advance the truth; including, but not limited to, the truth about the sin of homosexual behavior.

My friend Anna (if you are reading here, thanks Anna!!) recently sent me a timely email with a link to a blog over at Crosswalk that stresses the importance for fellow Christian believers to speak out in support of each other's efforts. This is needed more than ever when confronted with the fierce cultural battle over homosexuality.

If you would like to read it, the essay is called, Christians Must Learn To Speak Above A Whisper.

I also read the previous post by the same author called Searching for Truth in the Ashes of Postmodernism. The last few paragraphs of the post most definitely could apply here, and to this current raging cultural battle that we face:

"Stories are reported, not because they are relevant to our need to know or our national dialogue but because they generate a fantastic buzz. The buzz about the story soon becomes the hub of the story and truth is left in the dust.

When you couple this trend in news reporting with the spreading idea in Evangelical circles that objective truth is either nonexistent or unknowable you have a recipe for cultural confession on a crisis level. The popularity of Emergent Church theology, much of which is nothing more than warmed over liberalism, has many evangelicals scratching their heads, wondering if anything can be truly known. It is bad enough for the secular media to lose their grip on truth but when the church follows suit or in some cases leads the way, it can be said we have a national truth crisis. The consequences of this crisis are devastating. According to a recent poll, approximately 33% of Americans now believe the Bush Administration actually planned the attacks of 9/11 and then cooked up the story of Muslim extremists to support their desire to take America to war in Iraq. This alarming fact alone should be enough to demonstrate what can happen in a free society when truth becomes, like beauty, only relevant to the eye of the beholder.

Jesus said, "You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free." The first question should be "free from what?" Certainly, Jesus meant first we would be free from the bondage of sin. Once we repent of our fascination with the father of lies and know the Truth, confess the Truth, and conform to the Truth, which is not just a philosophical construct but Christ Himself, we can be free from the control of sin. We will, as a result, also be free from the consequences of sin and the confusion brought on by our willingness to substitute the Truth of God for a lie."

limpy99 said...

So let me get this straight. It was better for Lot to offer up his tow daughters to be gang-raped, but would have been worse to allow his guests to be homosexually assaulted?

Obviously, neither option seems likely to win a "Best Bed & Breakfast" award, but c'mon.

Mark said...

Christine,
Oh my, you have put it out there on the table like a dinner for Kings, yet all are invited! May God Bless you and I personally thank you!

Too bad "boo" and "limpy" will continue on their path towards.........what do they care?
Hell does not exist, God loves all of us, love is all that matters, they are good people, they never killed anyone, they bring grandma lunch every sunday. They are fine! Plus they are blessed with critical thinking, logic, etc.. stuff a holy holy holy all Just, all Knowing God considers really really cool.


Again, thanks Christine! May God Bless you and your patience, ya never know how God will work with a tossed seed!

Boo said...

"So let me get this straight. It was better for Lot to offer up his tow daughters to be gang-raped, but would have been worse to allow his guests to be homosexually assaulted?"

In the ancient world, once you accepted a traveler into your home you were obliged to defend them even to the death of your whole family, so yes, it was. It just had nothing to do with homo or hetero.

"Too bad "boo" and "limpy" will continue on their path towards.........what do they care?
Hell does not exist, God loves all of us, love is all that matters, they are good people, they never killed anyone, they bring grandma lunch every sunday. They are fine! Plus they are blessed with critical thinking, logic, etc.. stuff a holy holy holy all Just, all Knowing God considers really really cool."

Hell does not exist and being a good person is all you need? That's not Christianity at all, Mark! But you're right about the last part. God does think truth is pretty cool. I don't think He's all that big on the lying in His name tho, but you never know, maybe He told Paul Cameron to lie and wants everyone to die of AIDS.

Christinewjc said...

Hi Dani,

Thanks for coming over and offering your support as well. I really appreciate it!

You asked, "What is the deal with people like Deb and Boo? How deceived can some people be when the TRUTH is right in front of them?"

In an attempt to help answer your questions, I would like to share what I have learned through Bible study and reading biblically based Christian books.

From the looks of their posts, I would have to say that Deb and Boo have fallen hook, line and sinker in what the Bible calls "exchanging the truth for a lie." They can't accept the real truth, so instead, they create their own manmade "version" of "truth" in order to justify remaining in their chosen form of sin.

You also asked, "If these homosexuals really believe that they are "saved" - where is their place in the kingdom of heaven?"

Ultimately, only God knows the true condition of the heart of an individual. We know that salvation comes through Christ alone. John the Baptist paved the way for the Messiah by proclaiming that "we must repent, for the kingdom of God is near." Christ told us that we must be born again. We cannot know for sure whether or not an individual is saved, however, we do get a hint about it from God's Word because it says, "by their fruits you shall know them."

Anyone who claims to be a Christian yet willfully and defiantly wants to remain in a sinful state,(and teaches others to do the same) could very well be forfeiting their spiritual inheritance.

Worse yet, if they are not genuinely saved in the first place, they may actually be living the lie of a "false convert." Imagine a false convert saying to Jesus at the White Throne Judgment, "but didn't we prophecy in your name?" and Jesus replies, "I never knew you. Depart from me ye who work iniquity."

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



You asked, "Once saved always saved?"

I think that genuine salvation cannot be lost. I had a Christian friend who posted at my former message board. I thought that his explanation was a really good one. You can read it here.

Since then, I have read a book by Charles Stanley and posted about the doctrine of "once saved, always saved" in a past post here, but unfortunately I could not locate it in the archives.

However, my post was based on the book called, Eternal Security. This is a description of the contents:

Do you ever find yourself wondering...is it actually possible to know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that I am going to heaven? If you say that my salvation is "eternally secure" and that I can never lose it, does that mean that I can commit any sin and still go to heaven? How can an understanding of "eternal security" make a difference in my Christian life? With the wisdom and skill of a man who has personally wrestled with these questions, internationally-known pastor and best-selling author Charles Stanley addresses the age-old issue of grace vs. works in this compassionate, straight-forward book. With questions at the end of each chapter, this book is an excellent choice for individual or group study.

You asked, "Or can you loose your salvation for practicing perversion?"

Again, that would depend upon whether or not someone was genuinely saved in the first place. In Stanley's book, he shows that one cannot lose their salvation (once genuinely saved), however, continual blatant sinful behavior will affect eternal rewards.

The bad part is, even if a person is saved, he/she can lead others down the wrong path by passing along a doctrine of "bad grace." It is a situation where perhaps they formerly repented and are saved, but tell others that they don't need to repent of a certain type of sin that they refuse to give up. This type of twisted theology is, unfortunately, running rampant these days in the liberal left churches. Jude clearly warns us, then and now, that sexual immorality will be condoned by heretical teachers within the churches. This was prophesied to increase as the end times approach.

I gave Stanley's book to a friend to read so I can't cite much of it here. But it is an excellent book with biblical support for his claims.

Your concluding comment: "Or perhaps there was never a real conversion to begin with?" is what I think is most likely true in many cases. The existence of the "false convert" is, unfortunately, alive, and deep into deception...

Christinewjc said...

Oops. In my post to DL the following needs to be corrected:

"When you couple this trend in news reporting with the spreading idea in Evangelical circles that objective truth is either nonexistent or unknowable you have a recipe for cultural [confusion], (not confession) on a crisis level."

However, those who would preach such confusion through the lie that "objective truth is either nonexistent or unknowable" would be the need for confession!

Juan Buhler said...

You have your pagan friends who post and agree with your views. I have my Christian friends who post and agree with the Biblical views of God's absolute truth that I present.

Christine, you repeatedly show that you don't care for discussion and that your mind is closed to ideas other than the ones you already have.

Boo is probably the best thing that could have happened to you and your blog: she's eloquent, honest, informed and has the patience of a saint. I would take her challenge to use your critical mind a bit, before she gets tired and goes away. Instead you choose to answer her comment with an ad hominem. That's you, I guess.

Boo: Thanks. Your comments are big part of the reason I keep reding this blog (the rest of the reason is just to see what hateful stuff Christine is coming up with next.) As said, I think you are a saint.

Boo said...

"From the looks of their posts, I would have to say that Deb and Boo have fallen hook, line and sinker in what the Bible calls "exchanging the truth for a lie." They can't accept the real truth, so instead, they create their own manmade "version" of "truth" in order to justify remaining in their chosen form of sin."

So... being concerned about factual accuracy is exchanging the truth for a lie? It's a topsy-turvy world you've got there, Christine. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. As I said, on a couple of theological questions (and not that many when it comes down to it) we're probably just never going to agree, so I don't think there's much point going on about that part of it. Mainly I've been trying to get you to recognize that a lot of people on "your side" are lying their heads off and that this is not a good way to spread the love and redemption of God. As near as I can understand, your position seems to be that lying about the little things is ok as long as people are preaching the Bible. This to me recalls some Biblical verse about iron statues with feet of clay or something similar, can't remember exactly which one, but that's just me. I'd like to think I'm wrong and you actually are concerned with truth, so in that spirit here's some questions I'd really appreciate if you answered:

1. Is it morally acceptable for Paul Cameron to make up fake statistics about gay people and engage in fraud, such as his fraudulent claim about the statistical relevance of the books he used in his latest study?

2. Is it morally acceptable for well funded, well financed organizations who engage in anti-gay activism to cite Paul Cameron's fake statistics to back up their claims, since it would take them all of five seconds of research to determine their fraudulent nature?

3. Is it morally acceptable for Slavic Christians to spit on gay people and/or hit them with signs, and if not is it morally acceptable for the gay people who were hit and spit on to ask for police protection to ensure they will not be hit or spit on again?

4. Can you direct me to the provision in the newly amended California law prohibiting discrimination against gays in state-funded enterprises that pertains to thought and belief?

5. Is it morally acceptable for PhDs affiliated with the Discovery Institute to publish articles claiming there aren't any Cambrian transitional forms when even a cursory Google search turns up plenty of evidence that there are?

6. How is science teleological?

7. Was it morally acceptable for DL Foster to express his disagreement with Wayne Besen by posting a photo of the Jewish Mr. Besen with a Hitler mustache drawn on him?

8. Any idea why we drive on parkways and park on driveways? It just doesn't make sense to me...

9. If Christianity is not responsible for the actions of those who pervert Christianity why is evolution responsible for the actions of those who pervert Darwinism?

Mark said...

boo,
Too many christians and churches have relinquished Biblical truths and its doctrine. They don't have a sincere and deep repentance over sin. They don't have a sense of humility towards God. Their worship services are without Biblical Truths. They misuse and don't really have a profound understanding of God's character and Christ's work on the Cross. All these things lead to a life lived with a very low level of commitment towards God. When in fact our lives should be lived in His holiness.

According to scripture, God calls all believers to conform to the holy standard of His Word. First Peter 1:14-16 says, "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"

The diluting of Biblical doctrine has conditioned many christians and many churches to accept only that which will make them and others feel comfortable and satisfied. That is exactly what "gay christians'" and homosexual affirming churches are doing.

It should always be a warning sign when one's human experience and human emotion have been elevated above Biblical doctrine and divine revelation. Too many who call themselves Christians have no biblical basis for their acts, including any church that affirms a person's sexual brokeness as Holy before God!

Some people may think that this divides people. Then so be it! People's eternity depends on knowing the truth of God, Not Man's comfortable truths! If you disregard Biblical truths becuase you are afraid of offending someone, yes, eventually those that oppose you will disappear. And Satan will have been successful.

You know what else will also disappear? The truth! Holiness! and God Himself! You will be lead right into destruction! That is a warning straight from Christ.

Boo, That is exactly how Satan works. Replace God's truth with Man's desire for something more human, fleshly, worldly, intellectual etc... God calls the weak, the fallen, the least unlikely in this world to carry His message. In other words, God uses you Boo! Do not be conformed to this world, but submit to His.

Boo said...

"You know what else will also disappear? The truth! Holiness! and God Himself! You will be lead right into destruction! That is a warning straight from Christ."

You're right. It's not a good sign that truth is in precious short supply on this blog. Lies about gay people and evolution and all sorts of stuff are flung about like so much cheap... um... asbestos or something. And when the lies are clearly pointed out, shown to be lies, and contrasted with the truth, those who have promoted them turn away into denial and move onto pushing the next set, or even recycle the same ones after a little while.

"Boo, That is exactly how Satan works. Replace God's truth with Man's desire for something more human, fleshly, worldly, intellectual etc... God calls the weak, the fallen, the least unlikely in this world to carry His message. In other words, God uses you Boo! Do not be conformed to this world, but submit to His."

Indeed. Replace the uncomfortable messiness of what God actually created with a small comfortable space that conforms to one's desires, where gay people are easier to deal with cause they're all pedophiles, little Hitlers, disease ridden freaks determined to crush everyone's freedom. It's so much easier to Do Battle when the Enemy is made completely vile. When everyone who isn't just like you is a loony leftist liberal, and disagreement is never principled, never based on actually learning and thinking things through, but only because all the loony leftist liberals are in bed with the radical gay activists who want to rape our children, police our thoughts, hand over the country to terrorists, leave all the milk out to spoil, and change all mileage signs to the metric system.

"You know what else will also disappear? The truth! Holiness! and God Himself! You will be lead right into destruction! That is a warning straight from Christ."

Yes Christine, Mark, Dani, and DL. Yes it is.

Mark said...

Boo is still holding on to all of Man's shortcomings to justify sin. Classic work of Satan's deception. Boo, you should know better!

I'll call boo out on this statement she makes Replace the uncomfortable messiness of what God actually created with a small comfortable space that conforms to one's desires

Boo, when did sin, man's fallen nature, and making You feel better about YOU, over ride Holy doctrine and divine Revelation?

Back up your baseless claims that Christine has created with a small comfortable space that conforms to one's desires, where gay people are easier to deal with cause they're all pedophiles, little Hitlers, disease ridden freaks determined to crush everyone's freedom!

IMHO you boo are a coward! You have created a comfortable space that suites YOUR desire where gay people are held up as unboken sexually before a Holy God! You make FALSE accusations about Christine, to solicit human emotion over God's word. You lead people away from God, not closer!

Keep it up boo, and the next thing you will be telling us in hopes of shaming, is God does not discriminate! Sorry boo, God does discriminate! Heaven and Hell ring a bell?

The only thing you find offensive is, people like Christine are not afraid of offending a human condition that is broken. Which makes you boo, the hero for unsaved people. Congrats! (that title will be short lived!) Yeh! boo defends our fleshly worldly desires and intellict! It also makes you an enemy of God, even as you sit in church thinking you are a good person for doing so.

Now go do the Right thing! and it ain't got nothing to do with how the world thinks or accepts your unbiblical view of righteousness. It has everything to do with bringing people to the cross of Christ, and giving their entire life to Him, not parts, but all!

Christinewjc said...

Joseph Farah got it right when he called California's forced conversions to the homosexual agenda Bowing Before Baal!

Farah writes:

"When you submit yourself or your institution to government regulation in California now, you tacitly accept the official state religion of paganism.

And don't think it will end here. It never does.

When more people choose to drop out, as they inevitably will, the coercive state will find new creative ways to come after them as well.

I saw this coming 15 years ago when I chose to leave California for good. It's over. It really is the late, great state of California.

Remember how it all started.

It started with acceptance of the seemingly benign, libertarian notion that "what I do in the privacy of my own bedroom is none of the government's business." Now, of course, it's everyone's business.

By going to virtually any educational institution in California today you are swearing allegiance to the idea that homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality and a growing list of other sexual sins and pathologies are just as good, just as normal, just as acceptable, just as healthy as heterosexuality.

Even worse, you are converting to this religious view. You are rejecting your old religious code – if you had one. You are accepting what might be called "the mark of the Terminator."

What's next?

It's unlikely the people who believe in forced conversions will stop after this victory.

They have been trying to force their way into every facet of life in California and across the nation. They want to regulate homeschooling. They want to approve curricula. They want to ensure that no child escapes their efforts at indoctrination and brainwashing.

These are the same people who consider the Boy Scouts of America one of the most subversive organizations in America because of their commitment to the simple non-sectarian principle of monotheism. If you believe in one true God who rules the universe and has established a standard of behavior for all men, these zealots are coming after you.

The war is not over until everyone bows before Baal."

Boo said...

"Back up your baseless claims that Christine has created with a small comfortable space that conforms to one's desires, where gay people are easier to deal with cause they're all pedophiles, little Hitlers, disease ridden freaks determined to crush everyone's freedom!"

Christine has this blog called "Talkwisdom" where she often makes posts. Read it some time.

"IMHO you boo are a coward! You have created a comfortable space that suites YOUR desire where gay people are held up as unboken sexually before a Holy God! You make FALSE accusations about Christine, to solicit human emotion over God's word. You lead people away from God, not closer!"

Everyone's broken before God, you ding-dong. And sorry, showing someone clear evidence that a claim they've made isn't true is not a false accusation.

"The only thing you find offensive is, people like Christine are not afraid of offending a human condition that is broken."

No, I find it offensive that Christine says things that aren't true and repeats the lies of others with absolutely no concern. That just seems wrong, somehow. At the same time, I have this weird irrational feeling that it may be possible to get her to care, but who knows.

"Which makes you boo, the hero for unsaved people. Congrats! (that title will be short lived!) Yeh! boo defends our fleshly worldly desires and intellict!"

Well, obviously your "intellict" needs some defending, and possibly strengthening. Are you seriously claiming that one must check one's brain at the church door tho? So like, to be saved, you have to deteriorate your intellect to the point where you can wholeheartedly believe things that aren't true? That seems less Yahweh and more 1984. This God you've constructed doesn't sound much like the Biblical God. You're not going to convert people by telling them Christians have to believe things that aren't true. If you keep having to set God against reality, maybe the real problem is the way you're conceiving God. And no, unlike Christine and DL, I'm not here to be a great Warrior For God. I'm usually here cause I get Bored At Work.

"It has everything to do with bringing people to the cross of Christ, and giving their entire life to Him, not parts, but all!"

Attention non-Christians: this part is actually true. It's just that if you discover that Christ happens to hate all the same people you do, you probably haven't found the true cross of Christ.

"The war is not over until everyone bows before Baal."

Oh good, another war. Fortunately, if you think the state of California is Baal and you don't want to bow before Baal, there's a pretty simple solution. Just don't take "Baal's" money. I think abortion is wrong, but the state unfortunately does not. One way I avoid morally compromising myself on this issue is by not working at an abortion clinic. Same principle.

Mark said...

Attention non-Christians: this part is actually true. It's just that if you discover that Christ happens to hate all the same people you do, you probably haven't found the true cross of Christ.

I am sorry boo, you seem to have used the word hate and attributed it to Christ in an attempt to delfect what I actually said. Why do you do that? and being bored at work is not an excuse dear. You should actually be working, unless you think it is just a little sin to be paid for not doing your job.

I'll say it again It has everything to do with bringing people to the cross of Christ, and giving their entire life to Him, not parts, but all!

boo, if you want to hold up a broken life as Holy before God, what does that action tell people about Christ's work on the Cross? IMHO, it makes a mockery of it! and that is the work of earthly fallen sinful fleshly desire, foundation? Evil!

Boo said...

"I am sorry boo, you seem to have used the word hate and attributed it to Christ in an attempt to delfect what I actually said."

I am sorry for the misunderstanding Mark, what I was saying is that you believe in a Christ who just happens to share all of your own prejudices, it's probably not the genuine article, but rather one you've made in your own image.

"boo, if you want to hold up a broken life as Holy before God, what does that action tell people about Christ's work on the Cross?"

See above ding-dong comment, you ding-dong.

Boo said...

"what I was saying is that you believe in a Christ"

sorry, that should go "what I was saying is that IF you believe in a Christ..."

Don't want to go repeating the mistake of Christine and Mark et. al. in presuming to judge the hearts of others.

Mark said...

Boo,
Are your saying that Christians who profess Christianity (like you do, I think?) shouldn't judge others?

Are you one of those 'broadly' identified Christians, if so what are your standards of judgment. Ooops, I mean ascertaining right and wrong?

And finally shouldn't Christ be our example of what boo? Everything or select things?

If you could clear that up, Christine and I may be able to better judge what you are trying to say.

I look so forward to your reply to each question..:)

Mark said...

lol, I should have picked up on this before..sorry for the misunderstanding Mark, what I was saying is that you believe in a Christ who just happens to share all of your own prejudices,..

poor boo, she used the word "prejudices" in an attempt to make a point. Lets also throw out "discrimination" too? shall we boo? or racist, intollerant, bigot? No?

make a mental note, ding dong dip shit, God does discriminate, Heaven and Hell should ring a bell ...ding dong! :)

sorry Christine, I am a potty mouth, it's something I am working on and not trying hard enough obviously.

Boo said...

"Are you one of those 'broadly' identified Christians, if so what are your standards of judgment. Ooops, I mean ascertaining right and wrong?"

Not sure what you mean by "broadly." I have no problem judging the factual accuracy of someone's statements based on evidence. I have no problem judging sin. I just don't presume to judge what someone else's relationship with God is and their eternal destination. That's not my job. It seems, however, that I am clearly right to judge you as a ding-dong.

And you're right, in your case hatred is a much better word than prejudices.

Mark said...

poor boo,
I just don't presume to judge what someone else's relationship with God is and their eternal destination. That's not my job. It seems, however, that I am clearly right to judge you as a ding-dong.

You must have missed my comment It should always be a warning sign when one's human experience and human emotion have been elevated above Biblical doctrine and divine revelation. Too many who call themselves Christians have no biblical basis for their acts, including any church that affirms a person's sexual brokeness as Holy before God!

Would you please show me where, anywhere, and make something up if you must, where I have made any Eternal Judgements on your life?

Like I said before, I do not expect an answer, just as you did not answer my questions before. Tht should tell you something about Your God. He does not exist.

Mark said...

come on boo,
answer this please...shouldn't Christ be our example of what? Everything or select things?

Who do you serve boo? God First? or something else?
It appears you serve YOU, not God. Prove me wrong, with examples if you would be so kind.

No one has made any eternal judgements, otherwise back up your baseless claims! You are losing your creditability ding dong boo revisionist....

Mark said...

I have no problem judging sin.

Really? and would you please give me an example, and where you get it from?

This should be fun...lets start with sexual boundaries God has for us....

Christinewjc said...

Mark,

When I first read your italicized quote from Boo, I thought that it said, "I have no problem fudging sin!

I thought to myself...wow...she admits it?

Then I read her original statement and realized she had said, "I have no problem judging sin."

Wow...really?

I truly wonder what her response will be...

Boo said...

"Would you please show me where, anywhere, and make something up if you must, where I have made any Eternal Judgements on your life?"

I never said you, Mark, made any Eternal Judgements on my life. I was talking about where I draw the boundary between the kind of judging I think it's ok to do and the kind I think it's not ok to do. For example, I don't think it's my place to judge the sincerity of other people's relationship with God, but you seem to think it's your place to do so:

"Too many christians and churches have relinquished Biblical truths and its doctrine. They don't have a sincere and deep repentance over sin. They don't have a sense of humility towards God."

And so does Christine:

"You demonstrate who comes first in your life every time you write. It is YOU who comes first. Not the Lord Jesus Christ or His Word, the Bible."

I'm sorry Christine, but it is not your place to make those kind of judgements on other people's spiritual lives.

"come on boo,
answer this please...shouldn't Christ be our example of what? Everything or select things?"

Everything, of course. Except I don't think that means we're all supposed to wear robes and curse fig trees. At least you got through three comments in a row without being a potty mouth. And that's enough letting you bait me for one day.

Christinewjc said...

A former post in the archives,It's About Manipulation contains the entire first chapter of Kupelian's book, The Marketing of Evil. Here is the section that shows where they admitted to their lying (especially the bolded part):

"So much for desensitization and jamming. But what about "conversion"? Here, Kirk and Madsen announce defiantly:

"We mean conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean "subverting" the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends – using the very processes that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard – whether they like it or not."

Transforming another person’s hatred into love ("warm regard") is the object of classic brainwashing. As Kirk and Madsen explain:

"In Conversion, we mimic the natural process of stereotype-learning, with the following effect: we take the bigot's good feelings about all-right guys, and attach them to the label "gay," either weakening or, eventually, replacing his bad feelings toward the label and the prior stereotype. … Whereas in Jamming the target is shown a bigot being rejected by his crowd for his prejudice against gays, in Conversion the target is shown his crowd actually associating with gays in good fellowship. Once again, it's very difficult for the average person, who, by nature and training, almost invariably feels what he sees his fellows feeling, not to respond in this knee-jerk fashion to a sufficiently calculated advertisement."

We're talking about some serious messing around with Americans' minds here. Do the homosexual activists thus engaged really know they're deceiving the public, or are they convinced they're just telling the truth?
"It makes no difference that the ads are lies," write Kirk and Madsen, "not to us, because we're using them to ethically good effect, to counter negative stereotypes that are every bit as much lies, and far more wicked ones."

One more thing. I was reading a book called, The Glorious Appearing about the Rapture and the coming of the AntiChrist.
In Greek, the term "anti" can mean both "against" and "instead of." The AntiChrist will fool many people. Why? Because they will not care that he will strategically set himself up for worship in the Temple in Jerusalem one day and is against Christ. The non-believers will appear to be getting what they want...an earth without Christian believers and devoid of Christ. (I can just imagine Juan Buhler's woo hoo!).

However, the AntiChrist will reveal his "instead of God" plans and turn on those who have received the "mark of the beast." People will find out too late that they made an awful, eternal mistake by accepting that mark! There's a lot more to this story, but the resistance to his influence will be difficult mostly because people won't be able to recognize his true, evil motives in the beginning. (If anyone is interested in more about this, I can do a more detailed post in the future.)

Anyway, with that as a backdrop, let's take a look at the "anti-gay" propagandistic tools used by homosexual activists. Anyone who expresses opposition to their cause is negatively labeled. But many Christians don't see being "anti-homosexual propaganda" as a bad thing.

The true motives of homosexual activists (as revealed by Kirk and Madsen in their book) are to replace the real thing that represents a true, God inspired family of a mother, father and children. So, these activists counter our "anti- (meaning, instead of)family" position by calling it "hateful," "bigoted," etc. They want to deny us our right to view the traditional family structure as a good way of life.

It's no longer about "tolerance," "diversity," "acceptance," and all the other 'politically correct terms' that gay activists herald as their ideals. The fact that Christian conservatives are to be silenced in the public square for their opposition to the homosexual agenda demonstrates to many Biblical Christians that activists have absolutely no tolerance, acceptance, diversity, or views of freedom for those who wish to adhere to, and teach their children God's plan for the proper family structure. Thus, gay activists are actively attempting to take their place on the "throne" of dictatorship in moral matters and basically getting legislation through that would squelch all opposition to their views.

Parent's rights are being usurped in the schools. The liberal left owns the schools and much of the media, and they take advantage of this fact to brainwash any and all of the children who attend.

Schools should be about learning academics, not about socialistic behavior modification and indoctrination! That is what the underlying problem is with this terrible bill in CA.

Boo said...

""It makes no difference that the ads are lies," write Kirk and Madsen, "not to us, because we're using them to ethically good effect, to counter negative stereotypes that are every bit as much lies, and far more wicked ones.""

And if you look at this statement in the context of the above paragraph where they discuss the ads, it's pretty clear what they mean by lies is really no different from any regular form of advertising:

"Whereas in Jamming the target is shown a bigot being rejected by his crowd for his prejudice against gays, in Conversion the target is shown his crowd actually associating with gays in good fellowship. Once again, it's very difficult for the average person, who, by nature and training, almost invariably feels what he sees his fellows feeling, not to respond in this knee-jerk fashion to a sufficiently calculated advertisement."

I'm not sure why they would use the word "lies" in this context because they're clearly not referring to intentionally telling people things that aren't true. So no, in the regular usage of the word there are no lies there.

"The true motives of homosexual activists (as revealed by Kirk and Madsen in their book) are to replace the real thing that represents a true, God inspired family of a mother, father and children."

Is that like how the true motives of conservative Christians (as revealed by Westboro Baptist Church in their website) are to preach pure, raw hatred in the name of God? Do a google search on the book some time. The only people who've ever paid the slightest attention to it are the radical right. Just saying it's the bible of the gay rights movement doesn't make it so, any more than saying you're taking your marching orders from Fred Phelps makes it so.

"They want to deny us our right to view the traditional family structure as a good way of life."

Well if that's what they want, they're doing a pretty pathetic job of it, since in America there are no laws anywhere on the books or even proposed that would do that.

"Thus, gay activists are actively attempting to take their place on the "throne" of dictatorship in moral matters and basically getting legislation through that would squelch all opposition to their views. "

Yes, it's terrible that gay activists have managed to get legislation through that outlaws heterosexual marriages, criminalizes heterosexual intercourse, repeals the First Amendment, and closes all churches except the MCC. So... have you had a transporter accident and woken up to find your friends inexplicably sporting goatees?

Boo said...

Oops, my mistake. Mark did indeed presume to judge my final destination:

"Too bad "boo" and "limpy" will continue on their path towards.........what do they care?
Hell does not exist, God loves all of us, love is all that matters, they are good people, they never killed anyone, they bring grandma lunch every sunday. They are fine! Plus they are blessed with critical thinking, logic, etc.. stuff a holy holy holy all Just, all Knowing God considers really really cool."

Mark said...

Oops, my mistake. Mark did indeed presume to judge my final destination:

No, boo, just a warning that Christ did indeed suffer the death you and I deserved. Why? sin.

Do with that fact what you want. I hope it will not lead you to minimize sin, either publicly or privately, in thought or action.

I really like the ding dong thing. That will help me over come my potty mouth. Thanks :)

Boo said...

"No, boo, just a warning that Christ did indeed suffer the death you and I deserved. Why? sin."

Hmm...

"Too bad "boo" and "limpy" will continue on their path towards.........what do they care?
Hell does not exist, God loves all of us, love is all that matters,..."

Everyone not named Dani, Christine, or DL who believes Mark, raise your hand.

Btw Mark, you're on the path to hell.

Oh, and also, I didn't just say you're on the path to hell. Nope, didn't even imply it. Not a bitty-bit.

Mark said...

boo,
Your right, you are on the path to hell! Finally we agree.

Lewis said...

"The only thing you find offensive is, people like Christine are not afraid of offending a human condition that is broken. Which makes you boo, the hero for unsaved people. Congrats! (that title will be short lived!) Yeh! boo defends our fleshly worldly desires and intellict! It also makes you an enemy of God, even as you sit in church thinking you are a good person for doing so. "

kkjklj

"Are your saying that Christians who profess Christianity (like you do, I think?) shouldn't judge others?"

Isn't that one of the basic tenents of Christianity? Paraphrased its "Judge not lest ye be judged". Jesus also said something about looking out for the log in ones own eye before you go looking at the spec in your brothers.

To a non-christian, thats exactly what Christians shouldn't be doing. JUDGING other people. After all, christianity is all about the Jesus. You should try listening to him for once..


Mark's comment "It appears you serve YOU, not God. Prove me wrong, with examples if you would be so kind."
is really the most hypocritical drivel i've seen so far. Try looking in the mirror pal..

Of course as an atheist I don't have to follow any of your religious laws. It's rather ironic than an atheist has to tell you what your own religion says.