Wednesday, June 27, 2007

Is Scripture Authoritative In Your Life?

2 Peter 2:1-22 contains a harsh, but necessary message. It serves as a warning to those who would lead others into heresies that are not the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

The current phenomenon of the "Gay" Christian Movement is only one of the myriad of heresies going on today. However, it appears to be one of the hardest strongholds for those involved to break free from. The so-called "ministers" of this movement can only be spotted, found out, and opposed by those who adhere to the true gospel of Christ and know God's Word. Thus, we can recognize the error(s) inherent in this current movement.

One of the best websites that I have found which counters this heretical movement is
Gay Christian Movement Watch. The testimonies, articles, commentary and comments there from those on both sides of this issue are exposing the fact that gay-behavior affirming churches are leading many astray through invoking their own kind of "doctrine" that is anathema to what the Bible actually teaches us concerning homosexual behavior.

Case in point. When you read the comments written by a self-identified lesbian minister, you will notice (as I had previously posted):

The lesbian minister did not cite one verse of Scripture!

The lesbian minister wrote nothing about the need for confession and repentance of sin.

The lesbian minister wrote nothing about Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. In fact, she never even mentions Jesus the Christ!

So, we must ask the question, which “Jesus” does she truly worship?

Since yesterday's post, GCM Watch wrote a comment to the lesbian minister and asked:

Rev. Rawls how do you respond to what seems to be a very obvious “scriptural silence” trait of gay christian ministers? To clarify, we do not that one should be a “walking bible”, but in your defense of homosexuality here, you did not (as Christine mentioned) cite one, single verse of scripture. Should we take it that scripture does not hold a place of authority in your life or ministry?

Also you emphasized “ministering to all of God’s children irregardless of sexual orientation”. Are there any “sexual orientations” that you are aware of in which a person engaging in such expression would NOT be considered God’s child? Or are you simply using the term sexual orientation euphemistically for your own sexual expression?

Thirdly, you claim CBN has sought to make “people” ashamed of who they are. Can you cite a minimum of two specific examples where CBN has sought to make people ashamed of who they are and identify who those “people” are?

The site has the following verse at the top of the front page:

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false prophets among you, who shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that brought them and bring upon themselves swift destruction." II Peter 2:1

That is certainly some good Word that we all must soberly and accurately heed.

The entire chapter of 2 Peter prophetically addresses the current "blog battle" between "gay-behavior is not sin" Christian advocates (like Deb), and Biblically based Christian believers who bravely counter such heresy and refuse to compromise the truth.

I have read the testimonies of former lesbians and homosexual men who now admit that they were terribly deceived by such ministries. This is a serious issue because the salvation of the souls of hundreds, if not thousands, of homosexual people are at stake!

I will post the NKJV first, then follow up with the NLT (Deb's favorite version) in the hope that God's Word, not my own will speak to those who are caught up in the lies of deception that is inherent in the heresy of the "gay" Christian movement.

2Pe 2:1 BUT there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

2Pe 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

2Pe 2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[fn1] not slumber.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

2Pe 2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

2Pe 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

2Pe 2:7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked

2Pe 2:8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)--

2Pe 2:9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

2Pe 2:10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,

2Pe 2:11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

2Pe 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

2Pe 2:13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,

2Pe 2:14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.

2Pe 2:15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Pe 2:16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds[fn2] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[fn3]

2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[fn4] from those who live in error.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit,"[fn5] and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

2:3 M-Text reads will not.
2:17 NU-Text reads and mists.
2:17 NU-Text omits forever.
2:18 NU-Text reads are barely escaping.
2:22 Proverbs 26:11


2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach their destructive heresies about God and even turn against their Master who bought them. Theirs will be a swift and terrible end.

2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of them, Christ and his true way will be slandered.

2Pe 2:3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction is on the way.

2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare even the angels when they sinned; he threw them into hell,[fn1] in gloomy caves[fn2] and darkness until the judgment day.

2Pe 2:5 And God did not spare the ancient world-except for Noah and his family of seven. Noah warned the world of God's righteous judgment. Then God destroyed the whole world of ungodly people with a vast flood.

2Pe 2:6 Later, he turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into heaps of ashes and swept them off the face of the earth. He made them an example of what will happen to ungodly people.

2Pe 2:7 But at the same time, God rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a good man who was sick of all the immorality and wickedness around him.

2Pe 2:8 Yes, he was a righteous man who was distressed by the wickedness he saw and heard day after day.

2Pe 2:9 So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while punishing the wicked right up until the day of judgment.

2Pe 2:10 He is especially hard on those who follow their own evil, lustful desires and who despise authority. These people are proud and arrogant, daring even to scoff at the glorious ones[fn3] without so much as trembling.

2Pe 2:11 But the angels, even though they are far greater in power and strength than these false teachers, never speak out disrespectfully against[fn4] the glorious ones.

2Pe 2:12 These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, who are born to be caught and killed. They laugh at the terrifying powers they know so little about, and they will be destroyed along with them.

2Pe 2:13 Their destruction is their reward for the harm they have done. They love to indulge in evil pleasures in broad daylight. They are a disgrace and a stain among you. They revel in deceitfulness while they feast with you.

2Pe 2:14 They commit adultery with their eyes, and their lust is never satisfied. They make a game of luring unstable people into sin. They train themselves to be greedy; they are doomed and cursed.

2Pe 2:15 They have wandered off the right road and followed the way of Balaam son of Beor,[fn5] who loved to earn money by doing wrong.

2Pe 2:16 But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.

2Pe 2:17 These people are as useless as dried-up springs of water or as clouds blown away by the wind-promising much and delivering nothing. They are doomed to blackest darkness.

2Pe 2:18 They brag about themselves with empty, foolish boasting. With lustful desire as their bait, they lure back into sin those who have just escaped from such wicked living.

2Pe 2:19 They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves to sin and corruption. For you are a slave to whatever controls you.

2Pe 2:20 And when people escape from the wicked ways of the world by learning about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up with sin and become its slave again, they are worse off than before.

2Pe 2:21 It would be better if they had never known the right way to live than to know it and then reject the holy commandments that were given to them.

2Pe 2:22 They make these proverbs come true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[fn6] and "A washed pig returns to the mud."

2:4 Greek Tartaros.
2:4 Some manuscripts read chains of gloom.
2:10 The glorious ones are probably evil angels; also in 2:11.
2:11 Greek never bring blasphemous judgment from the Lord against.
2:15 Other manuscripts read Bosor.
2:22 Prov 26:11.


Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


~Deb said...

You sure do focus a lot on homosexuality. Shouldn't you focus more of your time on God and spreading the good news? The good news being that God has saved all of us through His son?

I guess you forgot that part. Keep condemning and see where that leads you my friend.

Your hypocrisy and judging is quite alarming for such a "caring Christian".


~Deb said...

They say that people who focus a lot of time on homosexual issues have tendencies to be gay as well. I have to wonder if you're repressing some deep seeded feelings. Hmm.

Can't wait to read more about gay basing and twisting the scriptures to hurt others! You're terrific at it!

Christinewjc said...

Deb wrote:

They say that people who focus a lot of time on homosexual issues have tendencies to be gay as well. I have to wonder if you're repressing some deep seeded feelings. Hmm.

Oh yeah Deb. Yep. You found me out!


I've only been married for 24 years to a wonderful man who loves me (and I love him!) and we have two grown children.

Yeah...that would tend to make others think that I'm a repressed lesbian.

Still refuse to answer my question, though...huh Deb?

Well guess what?

That certainly says a lot about you.

~Deb said...

I have a friend who was married to a man for 33 years. She came out of the closet due to her sexual orientation that she has known ever since she was a child. Sometimes people come out late. Who knows?

What question? Let me scan through all the scripture dribble that you've posted and see if I can find it. "THUMP THUMP THUMP!" (hehe)

Hope you're doing well my friend...! :)

~Deb said...

Ah, found it.

You said: "However, as saved Christians we will not suffer eternity away from the Lord like people who do not repent will. What are you going to reply to Jesus when he asks you, 'Deb, why did you lead those who needed to repent of their homosexual acts away from their need to confess and repent of their sin?'"

I repent of my "sins" everyday. Being with another woman of the same sex is NOT a sin. That's not my belief. But I guess you failed to read that part. Promisuity is the sin...not homosexuality. Leviticus---OLD---so if you're going to ramble on about that, then ramble on about the other detestable sins they list. Corinthians---we're saved through the blood of Christ and it Romans speaks purely about lust.

Nothing...nothing about the sin of homosexuality in the loving context. Nothing.


My new book coming out this fall will prove that in many ways through scriptures as well as spiritual experiences that I have had. I have done tons of research and soul searching. This book will put all homosexuals who are trying to live a comfortable life serving God as well as loving their partner at ease.

You? You're tearing down people's spirits by judging them. Keep throwing those stones!

Christinewjc said...

Deb wrote:

My new book coming out this fall will prove that in many ways through scriptures as well as spiritual experiences that I have had. I have done tons of research and soul searching. This book will put all homosexuals who are trying to live a comfortable life serving God as well as loving their partner at ease.

Ah! I see. You have finally admitted that your own words and "spiritual experiences" are more authoritative than God's Word!

Seems to me that the enemy of our souls used the same ploy in order to get Eve to doubt God's Word when he stated, "did God say you would surely die?"

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Your favorite version words it this way:

Gen 3:4 "You won't die!" the serpent hissed.

Gen 3:5 "God knows that your eyes will be opened when you eat it. You will become just like God, knowing everything, both good and evil."

~Deb said...

"Ah! I see. You have finally admitted that your own words and "spiritual experiences" are more authoritative than God's Word!"

When I speak of spiritual experiences, I speak of the Holy Spirit talking and moving within me. This is something people like you will never understand. But, I gathered that anyway, since you truly don't even know what the scriptures fully mean to begin with. It's obvious that all your preaching is purely out of hatred and anger. God doesn't want us to use the bible as a weapon, but to use it to teach, guide and share the good news with your fellow Christians as well as those who don't believe. Not to be confused with force-feeding scripture, which you do so well, but to fully understand it and read it WITH love, and not with anger. There's a big difference.

You have no spiritual authority over people. No one has. They don't have the right to. Only God has that right---because He is the only judge.

Keep casting the stones.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

Homosexuality is never defined in the Bible in an acceptable behavior if it were practiced by individuals who had a loving relationship with each other. Homosexuality is always condemned. Homosexual acts are not natural acts and they are against God created order.

Whether or not a homosexual couple is committed to each other is irrelevant to the argument since love and feelings do not change moral truths. If a couple, not married to each other but married to someone else, commits adultery yet they are committed to loving each other, their sin is not excused.

If homosexuality is made acceptable because the homosexual couple "loves" each other and are committed to each other, and by that logic we can say that couples of the same sex or even of different sexes who love each other and are committed to each other in a relationship automatically make that relationship morally correct. The problem is that love is used as an excuse to violate scripture. Second, it would mean that such things as pedophilia would be acceptable if the "couple" had a loving and committed relationship to each other. Third, the subjectivity of what it means to "love" and the "committed" to another person can be used to justify almost any sort of behavior.

Mark said...

Let me scan through all the scripture dribble that you've posted and see if I can find it.

Does one need a pot to the side of the head to realize scripture has no final authority in Deb's world view?

Your hypocrisy and judging is quite alarming for such a "caring Christian".

She call's you a hypocrite and is against 'judging'. Pricless!

Christinewjc said...

Great points Mark!

Does one need a pot to the side of the head to realize scripture has no final authority in Deb's world view?

Ha ha ha haaa! ...pot to the side of the head...hilarious.

How unfortunate that Deb doesn't realize the serious error of her current position that Scripture has no final authority in her world...

I'd love to hear her explanation to Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ for holding such a position.

Or, will she end up at the White Throne Judgment?

Only God knows for sure...

Christinewjc said...

Deb wrote:

When I speak of spiritual experiences, I speak of the Holy Spirit talking and moving within me.

God's Word says (concerning the Holy Spirit's leading): (all NLT)

Rom 8:5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace.

Rom 8:7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will.

Rom 8:8 That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

Rom 8:9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)

Rom 8:27 And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will. (bold and italics mine)

God's Word also has this admonition about "testing the spirits":

1Ti 4:1 (NLT) Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe; they will follow lying spirits and teachings that come from demons.

1Ti 4:2 (NLT) These teachers are hypocrites and liars. They pretend to be religious, but their consciences are dead.[fn1]

(All NKJV):

1Jo 4:1 BELOVED, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1Jo 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that[fn1] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

1Jo 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Christinewjc said...

1Cr 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

1Cr 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

1Cr 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy[fn4] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cr 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

1Cr 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?"[fn5] But we have the mind of Christ.

Christinewjc said...

Gal 5:16 So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves.

Gal 5:17 The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict.

Gal 5:18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law.

Gal 5:19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure,

Gal 5:20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group,

Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.

Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

Gal 5:25 If we are living now by the Holy Spirit, let us follow the Holy Spirit's leading in every part of our lives.

Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, or irritate one another, or be jealous of one another

Christinewjc said...

Jhn 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

Jhn 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.[fn3]

~Deb said...

” I'd love to hear her explanation to Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ for holding such a position.”

And what will God say to you once you have thrown all the stones that are left on the ground, Christine? You’re a bigot and you use Scriptures that don’t apply to homosexuals. Your blog is full of long-winded scriptures that mean absolutely nothing to you. I can ramble off tons of scriptures to you that would apply to what we’re speaking of, but you won’t do the same.

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Is eating shellfish a sin? Is shaving your beard a sin? (Not that I think you have facial hair of any sort.)

The difference between you and me is, you’re “religious”---full of self-righteousness and arrogance. You thrive when you hurt others in the name of God. You read the text of the bible, yet you don’t understand them fully. You don’t know the true meaning of it all. You can’t comprehend what it’s like to be a loving human, instead, you criticize and tear down those you think are sinning…when in fact, you probably have a few sins of your own to tend to.

God sees your heart, Christine. He knows your motives. He doesn’t want you to fix people. Only God can. And, if homosexuality IS a sin, (which I do not and will never, ever believe it is), then God will correct and convict me in His own timing.

Do you trust God enough that He’ll do that? Do you believe that God has brought His only Son to take away and wash away our sins? If you believe that Jesus is Lord and proclaim it with your mouth, then you are automatically saved!!! It’s a wonderful thing. The key is, “belief”. Belief that Jesus’ death was enough to wash away our sins, and not rely on the old laws of when they were bound back in the day. We are new Christians, living by God’s word and the Holy Spirit to guide us through life.

I believe with all my heart that Jesus is my Savior. Now, it’s up to only Him whether or not I am saved. I know I am. I feel I am. My relationship with the Lord is close, strong and everlasting.

How’s your relationship with Jesus? Do you know Him? Or do you just copy and paste your scriptures everywhere in order to condemn everyone?

Keep company with people like Mark, who preaches God's words full of profanity and insults. See where that gets you.

And I'm sure you would like to hit me over the head with a pot. Nice. Bigotry leads to violence eventually. I see it in you just like the rest of the hateful fundamentalists that you hang around with.


God bless! I hope God saves your soul, I really do!

Mark said...

And I'm sure you would like to hit me over the head with a pot. Nice. Bigotry leads to violence eventually. I see it in you just like the rest of the hateful fundamentalists that you hang around with.

and in the same toxic breath...

God bless! I hope God saves your soul, I really do!

Priceless! and it would be funny if not so tragic and sad.

Here is Deb's word, not God's...
If you believe that Jesus is Lord and proclaim it with your mouth, then you are automatically saved!!!

Wrong! and foolish.

What does the Bible teach about the relationship between salvation and repentance? First, it teaches that repentance is essential to salvation. One cannot truly believe unless he repents, and one cannot truly repent unless he believes. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin (but they are not synonymous terms). Acts 11:18 and 2 Peter 3:9 are two of the many verses that teach that repentance is necessary for salvation. Perhaps 2 Timothy 2:25 best sums up the relationship between repentance and saving faith when it speaks of "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (see also Acts 20:21).

Second, the Greek word for repentance (metanoia) means "to have another mind," but it cannot properly be defined to exclude a sense of hatred of and penitence for sin. The biblical concept of repentance involves far more than merely a casual change of thinking. Biblically, a person who repents does not continue willfully in sin. Repentance is a turning from sin, and it always results in changed behavior (Luke 3:8). While sorrow from sin is not equivalent to repentance, it is certainly an element of scriptural repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Finally, despite what is being widely taught today, affirming that repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus' lordship are necessary to salvation does not "add" anything to the requirement of faith for salvation. It is not "faith plus repentance" that saves, but rather a repentant faith. The notion that salvation is possible apart from a genuine, heartfelt repentance, which includes a deep hatred of sin, is a relatively new one, neither believed nor taught by the people of God until the twentieth century.

Dr John MacArthur