Saturday, June 30, 2007

Where Deb's Theology is Skewed

As it turns out, there aren't many comments over at Deb's blog that are worth responding to, with the exception of one written by "Brett."

Brett wrote:

"With this statement you make faith in the Bible as important as faith in God. You have it wrong. According to the Bible, Jesus is the supreme source of truth, not the Bible itself."

My response: You misrepresent me in your statement. My faith is in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Bible reveals the triune nature of God to us and it's main message points to Jesus Christ for our salvation.

Perhaps the following will clarify my beliefs. The parts in bold are representative of where Deb's theology is skewed. I have placed numbers in front of these points and have matched them up with just some of the reasons why I believe (according to God's Word) that Deb is presenting a reprobate theology with her "homosexual behavior is not sin" mantra.

What We Believe...

* About God:

God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, [1]and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:22; Psalms 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

*About Humankind:

We are made in the spiritual image of God, to be like him in character. We are the supreme object of God's creation. Although humankind has tremendous potential for good, (2) we are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God, called "sin." This attitude separates us from God.

Genesis 1:27; Psalms 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2

*About Eternity:

We all were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally in union with God (3) through forgiveness and salvation or separated from God by sin. Heaven is the place of eternal union and eternal life with God. The eternal separation from God is called Hell.

John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; (Hell)

Matthew 25:41; Revelation 21:27 (Heaven)

* About Jesus Christ:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and (4) offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heavens glory and will return again, to earth, to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Matthew 1:22-23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14, 15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

*About Salvation:

Salvation is a gift from God to mankind. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or good works. (4) Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can we be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment we receive Jesus Christ into our life by faith.

Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6; John 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

*About The Holy Spirit:

The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make mankind aware of our need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual gifts, (5) and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian's responsibility is to seek and to live under His will daily.

2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1

*About Spiritual Gifts:

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to each believer in Jesus Christ, (6) allowing for greater intimacy with God and power for accomplishing His work in our world today. We believe that God, the giver of gifts, gives severally as he wills, and with emphasis on growing maturity in Jesus Christ. These gifts are revealed and then can be used for His purposes and powerfully influence and affect our world for Christ.

1Corinthians 12:4-7, 11, 17, 29, 30

*About The Bible:

The Bible is God's Word to all mankind. It was written by human authors, (7) under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.

2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalms 12:6; 119:105, 160; Proverbs 30:5

(1) Because the Holy Spirit is co-equal and one God, He would not guide any believer away from God's Word or will. This is what Deb (unfortunately) does when (7)she claims that the Bible does not say that homosexual behavior is sin.

The Bible is clear in our need to confess and repent of sin (which means to turn away, not willfully continue in that sin while preaching or teaching others that it's not sin in the first place).

In 1 Corinthians 6:11, (the verse that Deb wrote about previously), the qualifying point of "for such were some of you," are the terms that follow which tell us "but you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified."

Notice that these are active terms.

In the prior verses, we are told what they were.

In the verses that follow, we are told what not to be!

We are told to flee sexual immorality and to "not make the members of Christ into a harlot." In the KJV, it is where we get the term "God forbid." ("Certainly not" in the NKJV). Further, in the final 5 verses, we are told:

a. Paul makes reference to Genesis where God's Word says that a man and a woman (no other relationship is authorized) "shall become one flesh." This negates any other sexual relationship as being sanctioned by God.

b. He (or she) who is joined is "one in spirit with God." This means that our spirits are to be joined according to His will, not ours. Therefore, the (7) Holy Spirit indwelling the believer would never lead a saved person back into sin. (2) Since we still are "in the flesh" while here on earth, we have the free will choice to follow the Holy Spirit's leading or our own fleshly desires.

Willfully continuing in homosexual behavior (or any other sin) is an indication that the person is continuing in his/her own will according to the flesh.

One does not lose their salvation (if they are genuinely saved in the first place), but each believer will appear at the (3) Judgment Seat of Christ (see 2 Cor. 5:10) to answer for deeds done on earth.

For the believer, this judgment involves rewards (or lack thereof) in heaven. (4) Our sins are not counted against us because we have repented and believe that Jesus is the Savior.

For non-believers, however, the situation is dire! They will go to the (3) White Throne Judgment (see Rev. 20:11-15).

With that said, when Deb promotes a false, reprobate theology, she is placing people at risk for missing (2,3,4)genuine salvation.

Not a good thing to be doing!

This is why I asked her:

(2) Doesn't it bother you that your beliefs concerning homosexuality as "not being a sin" is exactly the same as the secular world's view?

Jesus told us that his kingdom is "not of this world." Yet, Deb continues to want one foot in the "gay world of sin" and one foot in Jesus' kingdom. What's worse, is the fact that she is encouraging others to do the exact same thing.

That is not repentance!

She may claim Jesus as her Savior, but when will Deb go all the way and (5,6) embrace him as Lord over her entire life?

Jesus warned us that the end times would be like the "Days of Noah," and "the Days of Lot." The rampant evil and sin in each of these times is going on today. Jesus also said in Luke 17:22,

"Remember Lot's wife."

I will have an upcoming post giving much more detail about why Jesus made that statement in the course of discussing the end times. Suffice it to say, for right now, that we all know that Lot's wife looked back longingly towards Sodom and Gomorrah. She had every opportunity to repent, but in the end she was (2) lured back into sin. There is much to learn about this incident.

It isn't just a coincidence that Sodom was destroyed because of rampant sexual sin (including homosexual sin) and Jesus specifically mentions it as a Sign of the End Times.

People, this gay christian movement of reprobate theology is a strong indication that we're approaching the end times at warp speed! We're smack, dab in the middle of Jesus' warning that "it will be as in the Days of Lot."

Since God rained down fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah in the Days of Lot, and the story of Sodom (see Genesis 19:1-29) is about rampant sexual sin (including the homosexuals attempting to break down Lot's door to get at the angels appearing as men in Lot's residence) then it is absolutely ridiculous and ludicrous to think that Jesus would approve of homosexual acts today, or, especially, a gay christian movement that approves of such a sin.

Judgment was swift and immediate towards those perpetrators (they were blinded by God so they couldn't find the door) and followed by the total, firey judgment and destruction of the entire cities.

When we are born again in Christ, we are a new creation.

2Cr 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Read on (2 Cr. 5:18) and you will see that when we are reconciled unto God through Christ, we are now to be involved in the ministry of reconciliation.

Notice in verse 19 that God's Word says, "that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

2Cr 5:20
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.

2Cr 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
(bold mine)

In our worship and thanks to Jesus Christ for what he did for us at the cross, we are to strive to "become the righteousness of God in Him." This corresponds with Jesus' request to us once we are believers, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Homosexual behavior is a form of adultery. God's Word sanctions no other type of sexual relationship other than one man married to one woman. Homosexual pride (note the huge "gay" pride parade going on in London today) is a form of idolatry. The people "worship the created rather than the Creator, who is to be blessed forever, Amen." (see
Romans 1:25)

c. The following verses in 1 Corinthians tells us why we are to flee sexual immorality! It is because once we are born again and belong to Christ, our bodies are not our own and our bodies are to be considered a temple for the Holy Spirit.

Further, we are to glorify God in our bodies and our spirits; which, as our Creator, belong to God anyway (whether one wants to recognize this fact or not).

1Cr 6:18
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
1Cr 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
1Cr 6:20
For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.


We were bought at a price. A HUGE price. The body and blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

I take the gospel message very seriously and desire to share it accurately with everyone.

Some people may doubt my motives; especially on this issue.

So be it.

But I agree with what author Jerry Cesario writes in the conclusion of his "Days of Lot" essay:

I think the Bible is pretty clear, don't you? The problem isn't with homosexuality exclusively. You can replace that sin with any from the list, it simply doesn't matter. Sin is sin is sin! That is the key to this whole thing. However, the elusion to the days of Lot by Jesus Christ, and the delusion that is spreading in the world today are unmistakably linked to the homosexual lifestyle. Thus it is the issue that needs to be dealt with today.

As followers of and believers in Jesus Christ we must be compassionate and seek every opportunity to extend the Gospel to all sinners. Homosexuals do need to be reminded of their specific sins, but rather that their sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus, should they want it and confess that Jesus is Lord.

For those who are watching the skies and looking for Christ's return, this impending flood is inching oh so much closer. The great rescuing of the Church is surely nigh. Keep the faith saints, and do not bend on the essentials of the faith. The degree of sin being displayed may be perceived as worse than any other, but it is still just sin. We were all guilty before we received the grace of God. Don't forget that God dearly loves the sinner and does not have any joy in the death of the wicked. He loves the homosexual just as much as any other, so much that he sent his Son to die for them too... Written by Jerry Cesario (bold mine)


Spoke said...

"This blog is dedicated to defending the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith. We need Christian Culture Warriors who are willing to share our worldview and stand up for Jesus Christ in our present circumstances. He is our Savior, Lord, and King, and His love needs to be shed abroad in our hearts and in our world - now."

Why do American Christians get so hung up on defending Jesus and the Word of God?
The most important commandment is this: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength...the other goes with it, love your neighbor as yourself"
Jesus NEVER carried placards or hung out on pickit lines...and he didn't run around trying to get people to rally against anyone.
Stay away from the "homo" blog if it bothers you so much. Visit mine...and then leave if you can't handle it either.
Mine is about loving God AND my neighbor.

Spoke said...

Oh, I believe I'd be amiss if I didn't ask this question too:
Do you honestly think Jesus needs your help to "defend" Him?
Is that what is said in the the words of Jesus himself? Or is that an American, Republican, Evangelical tenet?

Mark said...

Why do American Christians get so hung up on defending Jesus and the Word of God?

priceless! Define American Christians so I can spoon feed you some truth spoke. Advice, get off the nimple spoke, and start eating solid food, the bread of life, God's word.

The most important commandment is this: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength...the other goes with it, love your neighbor as yourself"

That is exactly what Christine does! You may want to define love for me as well spoke. If it is a wroldly love, save your breath, even a child molestor loves the victims.

Jesus NEVER carried placards or hung out on pickit lines...and he didn't run around trying to get people to rally against anyone.

Are you saying Jesus did not divide people? Do the words leave your father and mother, forsake all and all things, take up your cross, deny yourself, be willing to die, put your hand to the plow and if you look back you're not worthy to be My disciple! ring a bell Mister love fest spoke?

Stay away from the "homo" blog if it bothers you so much.

Spoken like a true man who would die for nothing, and live for the same.

Mine is about loving God AND my neighbor.

Sadly you have no idea what Godly love is.

Do you honestly think Jesus needs your help to "defend" Him?

Do you honestly think Christ gives a rat's ass about how many people you worldly 'love', 'feed', and 'cloth' without sharing with them the eternal saving grace of Christ on the cross? Spoke, looks to me like you lead a road full of well fed, well loved, well dressed people all going to Hell perhaps? no?

Or is that an American, Republican, Evangelical tenet?

No, it's about a person living under the headship of Christ, not a lost, never satisfied, hurting, worldly 'love'.

Visit mine...and then leave if you can't handle it either.

...handle what spoke? basless, relative, worldly love hippy style dribble? Trust me, Christine has been on solid food much longer than you. If she didn't "love" her neighbor, she would reamin silent and let you and yours spew your basless Godless defintion of 'love' unrebuked against scripture.

Dani said...

Just checking in to say hi. Great post. Unfortunately, Deb has created an idol for herself and she worships her lesbian relationship more than she worships God. There is no resoning with those who pervert the gospel and believe in queer theology.

Keep up the good work in telling the Truth.

feetxxxl said...

i am a charismatic, evangelical christian who having studied scripture and experienced the holy spirit many times in a very powerful way is of the understanding that scripture never declared homosexual orientation or the sexual expression of that orientation as a sin.

EyesNowOpen said...

I'm hoping someone could point me to the exact scripture(s) where Jesus talked about homosexuality.

Christinewjc said...

Hello Spoke,

Welcome to Talkwisdom.

Mark replied in an excellent way to your questions, but I will add just a few references to Scripture.

You asked:

"Why do American Christians get so hung up on defending Jesus and the Word of God?"

Because there are false gospels out there today and Jesus warned us that "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."

He also warned us about "false prophets who will deceive many":

Mat 24:11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Mat 24:12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Mat 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mat 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

(see Matthew 24:5, 24:11, 24:23-26)

Notice also, that my blog intro says dedicated to defending the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith; not what you claimed here:

Spoke wrote:

"Do you honestly think Jesus needs your help to "defend" Him?
Is that what is said in the the words of Jesus himself? Or is that an American, Republican, Evangelical tenet?"

Christinewjc said...

Thanks so much for your excellent response here Mark.

It is so obviously true that when Jesus said "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold," he was referring to the agape love that we are to have towards God growing cold. When that happens, lawlessness abounds and the love for others grows cold, too.

The agape love of God, that we are to have towards God, as well as the brotherly love that is celebrated between believers here on earth will continue on into eternity. It doesn't have anything to do with sex.

The gay christian movement emphasizes the "eros" type of love and mixes it in with the lust of the flesh; attempting to make it "holy and righteous" somehow.

You saw right through this deception when you wrote:

"If she didn't "love" her neighbor, she would remain silent and let you and yours spew your baseless Godless definition of 'love' unrebuked against scripture."

Christinewjc said...

Hi Dani!

Nice to see you back here! Thanks for your encouragement.

As you said, all we can do is keep proclaiming the truth of God's Word.

It is then, the Holy Spirit's job to do the rest. We can continue to pray for Deb and those like her who are caught up in the lie and deception of the gay, reprobate theology heresy.

Christinewjc said...

Hello again feetxxl,

Then you must be reading the new "bible" where the scriptures that plainly, and explicitly condemn homosexual behavior have been purposely omitted.

Also, since that word wasn't in use back then, you must locate the scriptures that describe, and condemn, the physical act. There are plenty!

We are warned in the book of Revelation not to "take away from the words of this book."

Rev. 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Christ is God, the Holy Spirit (God also) inspired the Bible's writing, So when God declared homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament, it was in fact
Christ (God) who was the one declaring that. So, Christ did say a lot about homosexuality. Everytime God says it in the Bible, Christ (being part of the
Godhead) is agreeing with all that is previously written when he proclaims to the Father, "Your word is truth".

John 1 explains that Christ was (and is) GOD in the flesh and was the Creator who made everything, including every word written by man to be included in the Bible. This unequivocably solidifies the inerrancy of the Bible and supports God's original proclamations in Scripture that homosexual behavior is sin and an abomination.

Therefore, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 and 18:20 (hetero)are all forms of adultery. Also see Romans 1:23-32 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

The following are some passages in the New Testament concerning homosexuality showing that it is a sin. People who have been deceived and don't believe it is sin, are truly in danger of not knowing the spiritual as well as physical

Two main passages in the New Testament declaring homosexuality to be a sin are Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. In the former, Paul speaks of the world as given over to "degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire towards one another, men with men committing indecent acts."

In the Corinthian passage, Paul includes homosexuals among those who will not inherit the kingdom of God. "Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers… nor homosexuals…shall inherit the kingdom of God." Paul adds, "Such were some of you; but you were washed…sanctified…justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Thank God, there is a way out!

On homosexuality as a sin in the New Testament also see 1 Timothy 1:10 and Jude 7. The former links together "immoral men and homosexuals," and the latter speaks of Sodom and Gomorrah as those who "indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh." They are "exhibited as an example, in undergoing the
punishment of eternal fire."

Some links that I recommend:

Responding to pro-gay theology

Queer theology exposed

Robert Gagnon's essay

Christinewjc said...

Hi Eyesnowopen,

Welcome to Talkwisdom.

To answer your question, please see my comment to feetxxxl.

vargas said...

"With this statement you make faith in the Bible as important as faith in God. You have it wrong. According to the Bible, Jesus is the supreme source of truth, not the Bible itself."

What?!? I'm sorry, I usually just lurk here every now and then but this comment had me reeling.

I certainly need to strengthen my own spirituality but I couldn't believe what I was reading! Where else do we receive the revealed and Holy Word of God and His purposes for us except through the Bible? Is it not the holy book for Christians? Is it not how God communicates his will, purpose and laws to us? That was the nuttiest thing I've ever read! Sheesh!