Thursday, June 02, 2011

Where Do YOU Stand Regarding the Nation of Israel? [Update 4]

No matter what you may think personally about Glenn Beck, he is certainly doing a great service for God's people - the Jews of Israel - by exposing the Arab/Muslim/Socialist/Islamo-Fascist, Radical Leftist agenda cohorts who are using the Palestinian desire for a land of their own as a reason to hate and work towards exterminating the Jewish people in order to allow the confiscation of the land of the Jewish Nation and overtaking the Holy City of Jerusalem.

If you missed today's Glenn Beck Program on Fox News Channel, go to The Daily Beck (video should be up in a few hours) to see and hear the stories of several actual survivors of the Holocaust. I was absolutely riveted during today's broadcast.

UPDATE:  Video is up:

Watch The Glenn Beck TV Show: June 2nd 2011. Tonight, an emotional show you do not want to miss. Glenn speaks passionately and from the heart…an emotional appeal to stand firm in the face of evil.

It is absolutely appalling to me that the hatred of the Jews (particularly, hatred against Zionism) is back just 66 years after the establishment of the Jewish State!! Those who worked so hard to give the Jews back their homeland after the horrors of the Holocaust during WWII would probably never believe what is happening in today's world. The ratcheting up of anti-Semitism by the so-called "Arab Spring" uprisings is being used as an excuse. They are NOT ON THE ROAD TO DEMOCRACY. The Muslim Brotherhood is just as bad as the Nazis were in Germany!

I wonder. Are today's high school students being taught about the horrors of the Holocaust driven by Hitler's Nazi Germany? Or is it something that the liberals in education think isn't relevant anymore? Does anyone out their know the answer to my question? I am being serious.

When Glenn did a show on The Holodomor - the forced starvation of millions of people in the Ukraine, I asked my daughter to sit down and watch the show with me. She stated that she never learned about this "secret holocaust" in school. Why is that??

You know the old saying, "those who do not know history are destined to repeat it." This is what Beck is extremely worried about today because the horrors of the Holocaust of Nazi Germany is being ignored and even denied (by Iminajihad of Iran and other Arab leaders and nations). Young people who follow every word of the liberal elites who dominate the news stations here in America are not getting the truth anymore. They are targets of the propaganda of those who toe the line of the radicals who want to "change our history" here in America and around the world. How do they get away with it? I think it is because the young people in high school and college do not do their own homework on such issues and take in the Kool-aid propaganda being spewed by the Hollyweird, MTV, and liberal professors who only want to present one side of the story.

While watching Beck's show today, I could not help but remember how horrified I was when my history teacher showed a film about the Holocaust. I could not believe man's inhumanity to man. I got so choked up with tears that I had to ask the teacher to give me a bathroom pass. What I was seeing on the screen in the school on that day unnerved me and made me weep uncontrollably. My generation, the Baby Boomers, knew all about the Holocaust because many of our dads served in the military during those years. With the State of Israel being born just nine years before I was born, our educational system certainly covered what happened during World War II in graphic detail. Today, I'm not sure whether or not it is even given a blip on the radar screen in history classes. Here in California, "gay" and soon "transgender" history is more important to the fools who run public education in this decade. Never thought I'd see such a day, but God knew. The history regarding the evil and sin during the times of Noah (The Flood) and Lot (Sodom and Gomorrah) includes the rampant abomination of homosexual behavior. I'm getting a bit off topic so I will refer you to previous posts on this subject, The Days of Noah Are Here; Jesus Said "As In The Days of Noah; More Days of Lot and Noah; and The Times of the Signs - The Days of Lot.

Just as the Bible is clear about the behavior of homosexuality being sin, God's Word is clear about what will happen to the nations that gather up in the last days in order to destroy the apple of God's eye - the Nation of Israel.

What those who think that Israel should give up land to the Palestinians do not know is that God intends for Israel NEVER to be divided ever again.


Eze 37:21 "Then say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;


Eze 37:22 "and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.


Eze 37:23 "They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

There are many, many more verses that I could share regarding prophesies that tell us God's intention that Israel should not be divided (especially the Holy City of Jerusalem!!) and I invite readers here to include them in your comments.

Be back later for more...

*******

Update 6/3/11

The unfriendliness of the Obamafraud Administration towards the Jewish State of Israel has already been documented (unlike our current pResident in the White House but that's another story) through the mistreatment shown towards Benjamin Netanyahu and the fawning over Israel's enemies in the ironically named "Arab Spring" uprisings. But did you know that such unfriendliness extends towards a group of Jewish singers too?  Check this out:

posted by Jim Hoft at The Gateway Pundit - 10 hours ago
There’s an old Yiddish saying… Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me for 3 years with one Jew-bashing incident after another, shame on me. The Maccabeats, a group of Yeshiva University students, stormed on t...
Obama.  The dictator-in-chaff apparently puzzles some people.
Quote from Matzav.com:

The Office of the President, however, has asked that the video be removed from the internet and Matzav.com has acceded to that request.

It is not clear, though, why the Office of the President found the harmless, innocuous video of the Jewish acapella choir performing to President Obama’s applause problematic.
Could the liberal side of the Jewish community FINALLY be waking up about Obama's not-so-hidden- anymore anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism????

So....the question remains WHY WOULD Obama make such an order???

Jim Hoft explains why:

*******

Here's the answer to my question about the awakening of the liberal Jewish community:

posted by null at American Thinker - 18 minutes ago
They won't ever admit it, but the signs are obvious: Obama's 1967 borders speech is costing them votes and money needed in 2012.

Maybe Obama didn’t want his Muslim supporters to see it, huh?


*******

UPDATE #3:

WOW!!! I was reading through some links and comments over at American Thinker and came across this gem:

Posted by: Bear1909 May 25, 10:18 PM

Soros, Brezinski and their Puppet (President "Real Boy") launched a trial balloon to gauge how much the American electorate would submit to Islam and the sharia. That is the goal for breaking American democracy--- set up a shadow society in America by blowing the smithereens out of the MIddle East and let it emigrate here to "Prison Island" America. Let the refugee "question" come here....give them the Gulf Coast, the California Central Valley--- as the Holy Land will become uninhabitable while the Cloward Piven strategy overwhelms diplomacy and foreign policy. The coming crisis ignores the liberal press speaking of "revolution" and "Freedom" in the middle east: a firestorm has been ignited. And Israel is cornered now. It will end badly and the refugees will be brought here. End of the US. de facto sharia--- the gutter code of a latent beastly nature in the hearts of delusional men of Allah.

We accepted the executive order to import 20,000 "palestinians" immediately following his inauguration in January 2009. 20,000 of the sleeper cells of Hamas....with full support upon arrival and eventual passage of relatives. we just let it happen. we let CAIR continue to operate in the nation's capital as unindicted co-conspirators. we let TSA subject us to searches which Muslims have been exempted from by civil rights laws. the mosques are off limits to inspection for arms and seditious sermons advocating jihad. there is no effort to prosecute 501 c 3 mosques for racketeering under RICO. Ground Zero Mosque and that t*rd imam rauf promoting it as a building of goodwill. we have taken it all. but now the back stiffens at pre-1967 borders. how will the overwhelm proceed in the face of resistance? in the face of the wild cards the PTB have not calculated are going to be put in play by a cornered Israel.

And, this American Thinker commentator has Obama pegged...big time!

Posted by: rachelc May 27, 03:08 AM

There is no walking back his statements or his actions. He made it crystal clear what side he's on. He's been making it crystal clear since he got elected. His sympathies lie with the Islamic world...because that's the world he was raised in. So Jews...take heed. This man is NOT your friend. He is not a friend of Israel. Nor is he much of a friend to America because he's done nothing but hurt us with all of his flawed and irresponsible policies.

*******

UPDATE # 4:

Here's a an article that backs the fact that the Palestinians are not decendants from the ancient Philistines. Read Townhall columnist Michael Brown: More Facts on the Myth of the Palestinian People

18 comments:

GMpilot said...

You don't do your homework on such issues either, hostess.
It has long been established that your grasp of history is weak.
The Holocaust most certainly did happen, but those who deny it the loudest aren't 'Arab leaders and nations'. Look up, if you dare, Willis Carto and his ironically-named Liberty Lobby. One of the more notorious Holocaust-deniers is E. Zundel of Canada, who has spent most of the past forty years spewing the lies. Perhaps the most famous is David Irving, an historian who has written many books in defense of the Nazis and downplaying the mass murder of European Jews during World War II. He, BTW, is British. There are other prominent deniers in France, Austria, and even Sweden. I myself saw a book on Holocaust-denial written in (more likely translated into) Japanese years ago—in a nation of 130 million people that has about 6000 Jews in it. It seems the farther away one is from where it happened, the more likely one is to believe it didn't happen.

You don't know jack about anthropology. There is no Jewish “race”. That's the fantasy the Nazis used. They are a Semitic people, just like the Palestinians they fight against. There are no racial characteristics that set them apart from others. There are many cultural ones, but you can't tell a Syrian from an Israeli just by looking at them (unless they're carrying flags).

You don't study your Bible. The God depicted in that book approved of what we now call “ethnic cleansing”; the tales of Joshua will do for starters. Interestingly, most persecution of the Jews since those days has been done by Christian nations, in the name of that same God. England celebrated Richard III's coronation by rampaging through Jewish parts of town in several cities. Crusaders on the march to the Holy Land wiped out Jewish settlements in what is now southeastern Germany. Martin Luther thought burning Jews' homes and buildings was a good idea. No one ever talked about our “Judeo-Christian” heritage before the 1960s that I've been able to discover.

...and hasn't Israel been divided before? I seem to recall there being an Israel in the north and a Judah in the south long, long ago.

”What those who think that Israel should give up land to the Palestinians do not know is that God intends for Israel NEVER to be divided ever again.”
Then why did he ever allow it to happen in the FIRST place? He knew beforehand how it was going to turn out...didn't he?

I'll be back later, too.

Christinewjc said...

GMpilot,

Perhaps I missed it, but after reading my essay again this morning, I could not find where I labeled the Jews a "race."

I don't claim to be an expert on this issue, I just offer what I know to be true and continue learning as I go along.

BTW, you didn't bother to answer the title question: Where do YOU stand regarding the nation of Israel?

GMpilot said...

CJW: ”Perhaps I missed it, but after reading my essay again this morning, I could not find where I labeled the Jews a 'race'."

You missed it:

”No matter what you may think personally about Glenn Beck, he is certainly doing a great service for God's people - the Jews of Israel - by exposing the Arab/Muslim/Socialist/Islamo-Fascist, Radical Leftist agenda cohorts who are using the Palestinian desire for a land of their own as a reason to hate and work towards exterminating the Jewish race in order to allow the confiscation of the land of the Jewish Nation and overtaking the Holy City of Jerusalem.”

It's your opening paragraph. You can't proofread.

”I don't claim to be an expert on this issue, I just offer what I know to be true and continue learning as I go along.”

Some of what you know to be true...isn't. Learn from it.

So Glenn Beck (who, as a Mormon, believes that sin turns your skin dark) is defending people of olive-skinned complexions in the belief that...what, the Palestinians seek to destroy Israel? That's no big secret. Some certainly do. Many, perhaps most, do not. They just want a place they can call their own. Since the Jews hadn't had a place they could call their own for the past 2000 years or so, they should understand that desire better than most.
You don't know jack about politics. If you did, you could never jam “Arab/Muslim/Socialist/Islamo-Fascist, Radical Leftist” into one sentence, and try to apply it to one person or group of people. A couple of those terms actually contradict each other. Look up each one of those terms, willya, and find out what they mean!

”BTW, you didn't bother to answer the title question: Where do YOU stand regarding the nation of Israel?”

I said I'd be back, didn't I? I'll answer this later.

Christinewjc said...

Thanks for pointing out my error. I have since corrected it to "Jewish people."

Look GM, I realize that there are Palestinians living in the State of Israel - and they are FAR BETTER OFF AND HAPPIER than those who are being oppressed by Arab terrorist organizations AND THEIR LEADERS like the former PLO under Arafat, and now Hamas. But the State of Israel was created for the purpose of the Jews to have their own homeland again after being spread around the globe and in many cases, persecuted and killed in such lands.

I'm curious. Why can't you answer the question now? Why the hemmin' and hawin'? Either you are for Israel or against Her. And those who are for Israel simply state that Her people have the right to exist and live in their homeland peacefully.

Can you say that?

Or are you of the mindset that the revised history and propaganda that the Palestinian terrorist leaders spout (where most of the people were actually originally from Jordan) that they deserve the land and should push the Jews into the sea as like-minded Jihadist Ahmadinajad of Iran rants about every chance he is in front of a camera or an audience?

GMpilot said...

”Where do YOU stand regarding the nation of Israel?”

“Leave 'em alone.”
We are tied to Israel by a mutual legend, and a sense of guilt. Since most Americans are Christian, we profess to the same God, and believe the tales of the “End Times”, and Israel's designated role when those times come. Like the nations of western Europe, we too refused admission to shiploads of Jews fleeing oppression in Germany and Austria; some of our most famous and influential citizens agreed with the Nazi line that Jews never contributed to a society, but drained the vitality from it. After WWII, when the extent of Nazi crimes became known, we decided that this must never happen again (although it has, elsewhere) and acted as Israel's guardian over the past six decades.

We've sent them aid, and money, and weapons. Now, they build their own weapons, and very good ones. It's been an open secret for the past forty years that they possess nuclear weapons, although they neither confirm nor deny it. They have a stable economy, as evidenced in that many of their Arab neighbors choose to work there rather than at home. But they still get lots of our money.
In the early years of the Cold War we needed them, as a friendly foothold in the region, and they needed us to keep them viable. But like every other nation, their interests come first. That's why they turned intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard into turning over US secrets to them. When he was caught, Israel denied everything. About ten years ago they changed their tune, and even quietly campaigned for his release. They even granted him Israeli citizenship. But no matter how much people profess to love Israel, Pollard will not get out of prison; he's doing life in North Carolina. All the presidents since Bush I (yes, even Obama) have refused clemency.

So...since the Bible assures us that God will defend Israel when the chips are down, what does she need the United States for? The USA is nowhere mentioned in prophecy (and please spare me that 'young lions of Tarshish' stuff; been there, read that).

”...the State of Israel was created for the purpose of the Jews to have their own homeland again after being spread around the globe and in many cases, persecuted and killed in such lands.”

So that gives them the 'right' to persecute and kill in their OWN land??
I'm for Israel...being left alone. They have shown they can defend themselves, and if they can't, they can appeal to someone more powerful than all the armed forces in the world...although he has been known to destroy all but just a 'remnant' of his Chosen People many times before.
If they choose to kill or exile Palestinians because they wish to keep the land for themselves, that's their lookout. I don't want us involved with that.

Christinewjc said...

FYI Readers -

There are four updates on the front page, including:

Here's a an article that backs the fact that the Palestinians are not decendents from the ancient Philistines. Read Townhall columnist Michael Brown: More Facts on the Myth of the Palestinian People

Christinewjc said...

Very interesting comment from above link!

Quote:

"renny Wrote: 9 hours ago (7:01 AM)
The Palestinians are merely Arab muslims who lived in the Palestinian Potectorate--never a country of a nation--under British rule after WW I.

When the UN, darling of today's left, created Israel, it split the Protectorate into a Jewish state, Israel, and a Palestinian Arba* muslim state, Joran.

The Arba muslims from everywhere immediately made war on Israel (1948), were defeated as they would be in 1967 and 1973, and in response, many "Palestinians" left Israel and took up living in everlasting refugee camps established by the UN and used by all anti-Israeli forces ever since as a goad to constant conflicr and warfare.

NO muslim state, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, et. al. has EVER granted citizenship to a Palestinian, even if his/her family has been in that country since 1948, so that they Arabs can keep alive the mystical "right of return" to property they abanoned 60 years ago.

The Palestinians are like people from Camden County, NJ, when their county was combined with Burlington County, fled to Philadelphia to live in tents, scream and shout incessantly that they want Camden County back, stir up Pennsylvanians to go to war againt NJ occasionally, and constantly lob missiles and make terrorist attacks on the City of Camden.

We should STOP sending any aid to the Palestinians which just keeps alive their beliefs that they can defeat Israel and drive the Jews into the Mediterranean.

And as for a Palestinian nation, the leaders of this group have always been terrorists (PLO with Arafat and Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon) and are congenitally incapable of adminstering a nation state, as they cannot run their own territories except as breeding grounds of hate and aggression.

Bork'em. Let the Saudis and other Arab muslim states support them. We should wash out [our] hands of the "peace process" and let Israel defend herself as her leaders see fit."


* should read "Arab"

Gary Baker said...

GM,

As usual, your written statements far exceed your knowledge in any particular subject, and lack any sense of context or reason.

For example, I would like to understand how you can say that most of the persecution of the Jews was done by "Christian" nations. They claimed Christianity, to be sure, the same way some might claim intelligence based on a degree. When you go to the substance, however, you find a different story. For example, the Crusades and the Inquisitions were carried out in countries where over 90% of the citizens had ever heard a sermon in a tongue that they could understand or had access to a Bible (or the literacy to read it). So what you essentially had was a handful of theocrats controlling a war, a war that was prosecuted for more regularly and viruently by Muslims for that matter, but that's another topic.

However, even if we accept your premise, then the thousands of Jews killed by Christians in the Crusades and Inquisitions pale in comparison to the millions killed by atheists in Russia and China, and the Nazi directed holocaust with leaders that despised both Christian and Jew. Atheists: Thousands of times more deadly than Christians or Jews, not just to Jews and Muslims, but other atheists as well. We've covered this topic repeatedly, and you keep bringing back the same lies and distortions. Even a dog is capable of learning with repeated whippings. Apparently atheists are not that bright.

GMpilot said...

renny: "When the UN, darling of today's left, created Israel, it split the Protectorate into a Jewish state, Israel, and a Palestinian Arba* muslim state, Joran."

Where is Joran? :P

Gary Baker said...

GM,

Likewise, your stories of "ethnic cleansing" are skewed and ridiculous. The cleansing mentioned had nothing to do with ethnicity. It had to do with evil. The people inhabiting the land to be cleansed were so vile (gay sex, child sacrifice, idolatry), that they were beyond redemption. God did not approve. God ordered the extermination. You can disagree or not with his reasons. I'm not sure whether he finds it more sad or pathetic how highly you think of your own ability to judge his morality.

One area I will certainly give you due credit for: There are many anti-semetics across Europe and the Americas. And many of them argue the same lies and distortions that you do. Some occupy highly regarded seats of learning. Some occupy high positions in government. None of them matter for squat. The Lord will fight for Israel in his own time. The aid of the US is completely inconsequential in whether or not Israel falls. What is consequential for each of us as individuals is if we will stand for freedom and truth, or promote fabrication and Jihad. I know where I stand. Your words show where you lie (in more ways than one).

Gary Baker said...

Hi Christine,

Just got back from vacation. I see the small, yappy dogs are doing what comes naturally. A pity that you can't just spray them on the nose with a water bottle to train them. Still, I suppose it's a good reminder that some people just refuse to see the truth no matter how many times they get slapped on the nose with it. A shame.

GMpilot said...

Welcome back, Mr. Baker. As usual, you do better in puffing yourself up than in deflating my statements.
I've pointed out to you before that Hitler was raised a Catholic, and the vast majority of the Nazis were Lutheran (because we know Luther's attitude toward Jews) or Catholic. Hitler claimed he was doing “the Lord's work” by persecuting them. Atheists (or freethinkers, as they were better known in Germany) were also targets of persecution. You are right; some people never learn. Check your mirror.

”The people inhabiting the land to be cleansed were so vile (gay sex, child sacrifice, idolatry), that they were beyond redemption.”
So God is not capable of “infinite love”, and all the stories I hear are lies. Apparently there are crimes so great that not even the All-Powerful Lord of the Universe is capable of forgiving them. If one of those crimes is merely eating a fruit, how low must the threshold of the other crimes be?

”You can disagree or not with his reasons. I'm not sure whether he finds it more sad or pathetic how highly you think of your own ability to judge his morality.”
If we are moral agents (and we are), we can make moral judgments. If this God tells us to follow certain rules and then acts in a manner that contradicts those rules, then I can judge this God to be , if not immoral, at least amoral. Some biblical heroes questioned his judgment, I hear.

You say, ”The Lord will fight for Israel in his own time. The aid of the US is completely inconsequential in whether or not Israel falls.” If it is so inconsequential, why do we aid them? Because of some ancient superstition that nations that fight against Israel are doomed? I can't find Gog and Magog in any world atlas; I can find Egypt and Syria, supposedly Israel's onetime enemies. I have no personal grudge against Israel., but we've held them up for three generations now. It's time for them to stand up by themselves.

Our hostess asked a question, and so far only I, the resident dissenter, have answered it. If you have an answer to contribute, do so; otherwise go away and let the grownups talk.

Gary Baker said...

Hi GM,

"Hitler claimed he was doing “the Lord's work” by persecuting them. Atheists (or freethinkers, as they were better known in Germany) were also targets of persecution."

A politician claims a great many things when pushing a nation to war. In his private writings, Hitler called Christianity a disease, one that he blamed the Jews for, and vowed that it would be one of the diseaases that the Germans would be innoculated from. This also fits in with his actions to take the children away from the church and place them in his Hitler youth. As for atheists being persecuted, I imagine that anyone who opposed the Nazi's in any way were, but his ire was for the Jews and the Christians, as they represented values intrinsically opposed to Nazism.

"So God is not capable of “infinite love”, and all the stories I hear are lies."

No, GM. The stories you tell are lies.

"If one of those crimes is merely eating a fruit"

At the time you mention, that was not "one of those crimes." That was the only crime. Men were denied nothing except that, and it was still not enough, because like you they considered themselves the final judge of goodness, and like you they were pathetically wrong.

"Apparently there are crimes so great that not even the All-Powerful Lord of the Universe is capable of forgiving them."

God's ability to forgive is never an issue in these histories. He has stated repeatedly that he will show mercy to whom he chooses and that his mercy is based on establishment of a relationship with him. His desire is that you will be forgiven. Your attitude and rebellion refuse his mercy, and so you will burn unless you move into agreement with him.

"If this God tells us to follow certain rules and then acts in a manner that contradicts those rules,"

What a foolish and contradictory statement. Do parents observe the same restrictions as infants? Does a doctor prescribe the same medicine for each condition? No and no. Even in our own society we are told not to take justice into our own hands but to take matters of law to a court for disposition. We can disagree with how the judges and courts rule, but that does not empower us to call them guilty or nulify their judgement.

Aside from the stupidity of your argument, you also imply that God acts contrary to his nature, which he does not. Throughout the Bible, God has exercised his power of judgment based on his infinite knowledge.

Gary Baker said...

GM,

"If we are moral agents (and we are)"

A subjective opinion at best leading to a ridiculous conclusion. You claim to not even believe in God. How then can you "judge" him? What penalties could you impose? You can disagree with him, as you might disagree with a hurricane, and the effect would be the same. Foolish, foolish man.

"If it is so inconsequential, why do we aid them?"

We aid them because we have chosen as a society in the past to aid those who seek freedom over those who seek to enslave. Perhaps some day we will not.

"It's time for them to stand up by themselves."

And if we leave them, they will. And where will that leave us? In the same moral condition as a man who sees a woman being raped and beaten on the street and walks on by and does nothing. The option is always available to us. I read that many want us to take that option. Others are screaming for us to join in the beating.

Our hostess asks many questions. You seem to not care that a lie is never an answer and a half-truth is often worse. Christ once said of the Pharisees that if they were truly blind, they would not be guilty, but since they claim they could see, their guilt remains. As you claim to be a grown-up, your guilt remains. That you place yourself in such peril for such ridiculous statements simply increases the pathetic nature of your state.

Christinewjc said...

Dear Gary,

Beautifully stated! Thank you for sharing such great wisdom that we both know only comes via the Holy Spirit of God through His Living Word, Jesus Christ, and His written Word, the Bible. Jesus is smiling down upon you today!

I sincerely appreciate all that you add to this blog via your comments here. May God mightily bless you for your faithfulness and efforts to reach others with the Truth!

Christine

GMpilot said...

You don't believe in Communism, Mr. Baker, yet you judge it to be a lousy political system. The 'penalties' we sought to impose was containment—for forty years we tried to keep it from spreading to other countries. For the most part, it worked.
Yes, I do disagree with hurricanes. I don't like having one come along and wreck my town. But I know it springs from natural causes, not the whim of some ineffable being. If there was some divine hand behind it, I can have only contempt for that hand.

”We aid them because we have chosen as a society in the past to aid those who seek freedom over those who seek to enslave. Perhaps some day we will not.”

You mean freedom seekers such as pre-Castro Cuba and pre-1993 South Africa? How'd they turn out? As I recall, we didn't go to war in 1991 for the Republic of Kuwait, either.

Your analogy of a woman being raped holds up, to a point. Israel has been known to slip out from under our protection and firebomb her assailant's house. If she can do that, then she doesn't need us. You're the ones who claim that God will fight for Israel, so what better way to demonstrate his power and his holy covenant than by letting him do so?

Yes, our hostess asks many questions. Why do I seldom see any regular readers here—even you-- attempt to answer them? Ignorance is not a crime, but neither is it a virtue. If asking questions put me in peril (of what?) and 'increases the pathetic nature of [my] state', it only means I'm not content with the stories I'm told.
Blind faith is still blindness.

Gary Baker said...

GM,

"You don't believe in Communism, Mr. Baker, yet you judge it to be a lousy political system."

Based on an overwhelming amount of historical evidence, I might add. To wit: Results in widespread poverty, economic shortages, reduced liberty. Not just some of the time. Everywhere it is implemented. Kind of hard to argue with that.

"But I know it springs from natural causes, not the whim of some ineffable being."

No, you assume that it does. You can present no evidence one way or the other.

" If there was some divine hand behind it, I can have only contempt for that hand."

Which is one of the things that makes God so superior: He sees your contempt and still loves you.

"You're the ones who claim that God will fight for Israel, so what better way to demonstrate his power and his holy covenant than by letting him do so?"

Boy, it is hard to believe that you are that thick. As I said last time: The loss to Israel of US support, while a blow to our relations, will probably not harm them a bit. The loss will purely be ours. We will be the ones abandoning the only functional democracy in the Middle East, one regularly attacked by rockets, terrorism, etc.

GM, I do not condemn your ignorance. I condemn your unwillingness to learn as you repeat the same stupid lies time after time. It is not your questions that put you in peril, but your contempt for the truth and your lack of integrity. The prophets that you mentioned that questioned God, often angrily, did so from the standpoint of an established relationship. If your questions indicate anything beyond derision, you conceal it well.

And you seem very content with the stories you are told as long as they match your worldview, which is why the research I do into such matters allows me to pack your fables back into your virtual sanitary cavity.

Blind faith in God was once essential due to the state of literacy and research. In our age, however, there is knowledge available to any who chose to look. You still pointedly look away, and that is what makes you pathetic. That and your laziness. Look at what you have written. Rhetorical questions showing little knowledge and making no statement, the sole intent to try to smear an opponent. You mentioned grown-ups previously. Try acting like one and make statements that you can stand behind instead of slinging rhetorical mud. It will make you no more correct, but might earn you a bit of self respect.

Gary Baker said...

GM,

Here's a question based on what you wrote before: How can you consider yourself a "moral agent?" And what does that mean? What is the source of your moral code? Is there any objective way to verify it, or is it simply a matter of how you feel today? Using legality can hardly suffice. The laws vary wildly over different states and nations, and often change within them. You claimed in an earlier post that God did not follow his own code (which is demonstrably false), but do you even have a tangible code that you can claim? Without one, it kind of makes any claim to being a "moral agent" rather laughable.