Sunday, April 29, 2007

The Darkness of Our Times

I have to admit, I never, ever dreamed that the closer we get to the end times (and, it's building each and every day), that the heresy and apostasy warned about in Scripture would be so evident and stark to some believers, while complete deception would rule within the heart and minds-eye of others.

The post called "The Law no longer applies! according to gay christians" written by Mark over at Chester Street is just one example of the not-so-subtle deception that is currently permeating Christian belief. Read the comments there, too, and you will see that deception can cause a 180 degree turn from what has been known and taught (through exegesis, Scripture interprets Scripture, and Sola Scriptura, and scholarly Biblical study & review) for two thousand years; into heretical beliefs spawned by secular humanistic desires masquerading as "tolerance," "diversity of opinion," "focusing only on Jesus' love without regard for his role as Judge of the universe," the "twisting of Scripture to accommodate sin," and the misuse of "thou shall not judge" as if all discernment should be thrown out the window.

A while back, I was startled to read the Barna Research pages that revealed how many label themselves as "Christians" today, yet not be willing to follow the true Gospel and Biblical mandates of Christian belief and scholarship. Jesus himself warns us:

Mar 13:22 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Mar 13:23 "But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

Mat 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Mat 24:25 "See, I have told you beforehand.

How do we recognize one who professes to be a true believer but acts in the spirit like a false christ or false prophet? The only way to recognize deception like this is to be born again in Christ and to know God's Word. Otherwise, the sentiment of the people can be swayed so easily that they don't even realize that they are being deceived!

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

Jesus gives us insight into the world of demons in the following Scriptures and Dr. Guzik explains further in his commentary below.

Jesus speaking:

Mat 12:43 ¶ When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Guzik commentary:

3. (43-45) The dangerous consequences of their rejection of Jesus.

"When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation."

a. When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none: Jesus grants us an important insight into the world of demons. Apparently, they (or at least some of them) desire a human host, and look for such among those who have "unfilled houses."

b. And the last state of that man is worse than the first: How important it is that we be filled with Jesus; as He fills us, we cannot be filled with any unclean spirit.
In his informative book, "Antichrist Rising: The Coming Global Storm," Ed Hindson writes:

The Bible predicts that a time of spiritual apostasy will precede the revealing of the Antichrist ("man of sin"). The book of Revelation describes this apostasy as the religion of the "great whore." She is the epitome of false religion and spiritual adultery. By contrast, the New Testament church is pictured as a virgin betrothed to Christ.

Most Evangelicals believe this apostasy is made up of people who outwardly profess Christianity but have no inward possession of the Spirit of God. Peter Lalonde argues that the apostate whore is not made up of any particular denomination, but of "all those who do not truly love the Lord." Many view the false religion of the last days as a combination of corrupted Roman Catholicism, liberal Protestantism, New Age mysticism, and materialistic Evangelicalism all rolled into one grand deception.

Years ago, professing Christians almost always acknowledged the authority of Scripture. Whether they were willing to live by it or not, people believed the legitimacy of biblical morality. Today, that is often not the case. Even professing Evangelical believers will often disregard the commands of God. It is not unusual today for people to respond with an "I don't care" attitude when confronted with biblical truth. People used to say, "Pastor, I know what I'm doing is wrong, but I just can't help myself." Today, the more common response is, "I know what the Bible says, but I'm going to do what I want to do anyway."

This shift of attitude betrays the selfism that is so prevalent in our modern culture. People want what is best for themselves regardless of who they hurt or what moral principles they violate.

Does that aptly describe what is going on in the world these days or what??

Let's read that again:

People want what is best for themselves regardless of who they hurt or what moral principles they violate.

This list is by no means a comprehensive one, but even these few examples of "selfism" show the truth in that comment!

1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Porn
4. Pedophilia
5. Homosexuality
6. Polygamy
7. Sexual Predators
8. Radical Islam
9. Secular Humanism/Atheism
10. Anti-Christian Legislation
11. Sex trafficking
12. Drug abuse culture
13. Alcoholism epidemic
14. Violence
15. Hatred spewed via media
16. Rampant fornication
17. Evil endeavors
18. Rape
19. Murder
20. Assault
21. Physical, emotional, intellectual abuse
22. Propaganda/brainwashing

And I'm sure that every person reading this could add to the list!

What do all of these things have in common? They are all examples of the "spirit of antichrist." All of these things happening are setting the stage for the final rise of apostasy.

The apostle John warned centuries ago that the spirit of Antichrist is already at work through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. He added that there are "many antichrists" who "went out from us" because they "did not belong to us" (1 John 2:16-19; 4:1-4).

Now, this next statement is going to be hard to accept. It will grieve you. It certainly grieved me when I read it, but it is accurate (and backed up by Scripture). Professing Christians who really do not know Christ and do not possess His Spirit in their hearts are called little antichrists because they express the spirit and attitude of Antichrist. Now, I'm not calling them the Antichrist. They only prefigure the Antichrist, who is described in the Bible as the "man of sin." the "son of perdition," and the "beast out of the sea."

I know. The idea that such a great deceiver could come upon the world scene instantly and dramatically may see remote to some. But when the rapture of the church happens, it will have global significance and proportions that will shake the entire world population. Thus, it will have to be explained in some manner. The Bible warns that the explanation will be a lie that brings "powerful delusion" to the unbelieving world (2 Thessalonians 2:11) The mind-sets of liberal Christianity, New Age thinking, corrupted Roman Catholicism, and the seeker-sensitive Evangelicalism could all play a part. So you can see that we are coming dangerously closer than at any other time in history.

The rapture of the church (all genuine believers, not a denomination or building) is the blessed hope of the believer. But it is a sobering matter for those who are left behind. They will likely succomb to the great lie and will perish and be damned (see 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12) unless they come to Christ during the Tribulation period. With all the believers gone, God's warnings to a defiant and unbelieving world will be gone as well. Therefore, it will be more difficult for people to escape the huge delusions and deceptions.

When the Antichrist rises to power, he will oppose God, exalt himself above God, and even claim to be God (see 2 Thessalonians 2:4). The Bible warns us that the Antichrist will be empowered by Satan to do miracles of signs and wonders (see 2 Thessalonians 2:9). He will be assisted by the False Prophet who encourages the worship of the Antichrist as God.

There is more to share, but I will continue in the next post. Meanwhile, I wanted to show a chart done by Grant Jeffrey (an end times expert) that points out several contrasts between Christ and Antichrist.

Christ :

The Truth
Holy One
Man of Sorrows
Son of God
Mystery of Godliness
Good Shepherd
Exalted on High
Humbled Himself
Cleanses the Temple
Slain for the People
The Lamb



The Lie
Lawless One
Man of Sin
Son of Satan
Mystery of Iniquity
Worthless Shepherd
Cast Down to Hell
Exalted Himself
Defiles the Temple
Slays the People
The Beast

A simple survey of the characteristics of the Antichrist confirms the idea that he is both a false Christ (pseudochristos) and against Christ (antichristos). He masquerades as an angel of light only to plunge the world into spiritual darkness. Like Satan, he is a destroyer, not a builder. Promising peace, he pushes the world into war. In every conceivable way, he is just like Satan who indwells and empowers him.

The spirit of Antichrist is alive and well today. The New Testament authors assure us that the spirit of Antichrist was active in their day over 20 centuries ago. It has remained active throughout church history. He expresses himself in persecutions, heresies, spiritual deceptions, false prophets, and false religions. At the culmination of history, such a spirit will inhabit one satan's final "masterpiece."

In the next segment, I will discuss the Scriptures that warn the church constantly of apostasy from within its ranks. (For a head start, see 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 3:1-5; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Galatians 1:6-12; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 1 John 4:1-3; 2 John 7; Jude 3,4).

The warning:

1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The hope and comfort:

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Christinewjc said...

I debated whether or not to leave a loonie post here in the comment section. Then I thought that I would just post one sentence from his website (which, incidentally, encourages you to buy his book):

What do you call a crazy spaceman? - - An Astronut.

See? Aren't you glad that I saved you some time?

Now, if you are into fiction and crazy lunatic twisting of Scripture and the truth...just type in "secret rapture's" profile name into the blog search and you can choose to read his ignorant rantings...

Christinewjc said...

There have been several broadcasts on T.V. lately regarding the Antichrist and the end times.

Glenn Beck devoted an entire hour to a discussion of these things with the "Left Behind" authors Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. Also contributing to the discussion was Joel Rosenberg. You can do a search to read about their books and writings. I think that Joel has a blog.

On the History Channel last night, there were repeat broadcasts of two, hour-long segments about the Antichrist.

The one thing that they got wrong (and it seems to be typical of the non-believers crowd) was the claim that Jesus was wrong about a certain prophecy he had made. Here is the Scripture:

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Now, the producers took that verse out of context to claim that Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time that he walked the earth. However, if you look at the verses before this verse, we see clearly that he was speaking of the generation that was to come and would see all of these signs and events:

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:32 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

This is an example of error typical done by those who do not study the Bible, but pick and choose one or two verses to make them "fit" their pre-conceived notions (or, in this case, prejudice to discredit Jesus) and thus make a bold claim that they have found a prophecy unfulfilled.

Jesus even predicted people would scoff and ridicule him!

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

I guess they have to do that. The truth is too scary for them. They can't handle the truth.

In addition, when the Pharisees approached Jesus, looking for a sign from heaven Jesus rebuked them:

Mar 8:11 ¶ And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.

Mar 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

The miracles Jesus performed on earth weren't enough for these skeptics. They "tempted" Jesus to display a "sign from heaven" so that they could believe in him.

That's not faith.

It's manipulation.

And guess who is the master of evil manipulation?

Jesus tells us that, too:

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

(Verse 8 tells us who he was talking to)

Jhn 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

Read the entire chapter for greater insight and clarity.

Jesus says it well:

Jhn 8:45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.

Dani said...

Great post Christine! It truly is scary at how easily people are deceived these days. I guess when you create an idol for yourself and worship your sin rather than the Creator, it's not surprising to see how many people fall hook line and sinker in a sea of their own selfishness.

Keep up the good work!

Christinewjc said...

Thanks Dani! I appreciate your kind words of endorsement.

Hindson's book is really good. It was a book that I had purchased at a church seminar several years ago, but didn't get around to reading until now! I am recalling a lot of what he presented in person at the seminar. I usually take copious notes at these events. It helps me retain the information that is being shared.

You wrote: "I guess when you create an idol for yourself and worship your sin rather than the Creator, it's not surprising to see how many people fall hook line and sinker in a sea of their own selfishness.."

So very true now-a-days! Hindson goes into even greater detail about this later in the chapter. I plan to share most of it in my next segment!

God bless!

Christinewjc said...

I found Joel Rosenberg's testimony online. He appeared in the Glenn Beck end times segment.

He was answering a reader's question that asked, "Joel, would you tell me more about your spiritual journey?"

I want to get and read his latest book called, Epicenter.

His website claims that his book answers questions like:

Will Iraq go from bad to worse?

Will Israel and her Arab neighbors find peace, or is another major Middle East war just around the corner?

If the new, post-Soviet Russia is our friend, why is the Kremlin creating a new class of thermonuclear weapons and building an alliance with radical Islam?

Doug said...

Wow, sounds like you made the correct decision to remove the loon-du-jour.

The only thing I'll say about end times is that when Tim LaHaye stops signing long-term contracts with his publisher, then I'll start to wonder if the rapture is imminent.

Great work Christine. Keep it up!

~Deb said...
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~Deb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christinewjc said...


I already knew that your previous deleted comments (here) were not all about me. However, at Mark's blog you clearly accused me of "spreading hatred" and how God will "judge me" and how because I allow free speech rights of other Christians at my blog that this means I am "being like the Phelps people."

At Mark's blog, I showed you proof (that was previously posted elsewhere on my blog) that the Phelps group is a cult. I shared why they rank as a cult and what is disasterously missing from their belief system. Need a reminder? O.K. I'll post it again here:

At Mark's blog, you said:

" ~Deb said...
No Christine, it's because I know the truth for myself, through scripture, experience as well as how often God speaks to me.

Ever wonder why the only people who talk on your site are the very ones who are just like the people of the Phelp's family? Because you spread words of hatred- through letting the other 'anti-Christs' rant on your blog.

I don't scurry from anything. With the Lord on my side, who can be against me---except for those who don't know Him personally.

I'll pray for you and your day when God judges you...upon how you judged other people.

God bless!

5/01/2007 8:30 AM "

My reply:
Christinewjc said...

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion of me, but I hope that your readers will notice that you deliberately lied about me regarding what I share vs. what the Phelps cult believes.

For those who may not want to read through that entire post, here is the portion that includes what I said about the Phelps cult:

A few nights ago, I witnessed a verbal exchange between Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes, and a member of the Westboro "Baptist" church (Fred Phelps fame). What a riveting segment. That group is a cult that has, unfortunately, been used to discredit true Christian ministries that seek to help people who are unhappy and struggling with same-sex attraction find freedom in Jesus Christ.

This group goes even further down to the pit of Satan. They were picketing at funerals, demonstrating against, and demeaning our brave military heroes who had given their lives in the effort to defeat terrorism and keep our country safe from any additional attacks since the tragedy of 9/11.

This is profoundly ugly. It's totally disgraceful and utterly unChristian to do such a thing. Yet, these people think that they are the "genuine" Christians and all the rest of us are "abominations."

The Bible does not call people abominations. It calls certain acts of sin abominations.

I would like to state one important observation about the Phelps cult member that appeared on Hannity and Colmes. She never once mentioned the power and saving grace that any sinner can be given through repentance and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior!

That one fact is what unites Christ's true, universal church (believers, not a denomination or building) despite differing "human traditions" added to individual denominations! This is the crux of the matter. If a church does not teach, "Jesus Christ and him crucified" as the way of salvation, then it is not following what God requires for reconciliation between God and man.

My second post is up that goes into more detail on how to spot (and avoid) false prophets. It might do you some good to read it, Deb.

5/01/2007 12:59 PM

Secondly, do you even know the difference between the "Judgment Seat of Christ" (for believers) and the "Great White Throne Judgment?"

If you don't, then I suggest you do some studying of your Bible. Read some biblical scholars commentaries on this issue.

Lastly, if you are going to claim to know the truth, then go to the source of all truth. God's Word, the Bible. The Holy Spirit of Christ would not be "whispering things in your ear" and speaking to you, encouraging you to do, say, or be anything that runs contrary to Scripture. This is where I can see error in your professed form of doctrine.

~Deb said...

But what I’m trying to say is, I see you trudging along the borderline of the same mindset of the Phelps’ family.

I read the bible every single day. EVERY DAY. No one can say that I don’t know the bible, because clear enough, I do. Now, each interpretation is different. Before I read the bible Christine, I pray to God to give me wisdom and understanding of what I’m reading.

My relationship with God is personal. I talk to Him on a daily basis. How can anyone, including yourself say that I don’t read the bible? You have lied right there, no?

You side with evil people, like Dani, who curse me and try to make me feel horrible about myself. I don’t care who you’re friends with, but it does say in the bible that your friends show what type of person you are.

Just because she is against homosexuals- you’re okay with her. But let me ask you this------do you find her approach loving?

Please answer that.

I refuse to post any of Dani’s comments any more due to her disgusting language. She has really shown an evil side to her, and you can’t possibly say you haven’t seen this. My prayer to her on my blog was sincere and loving. Regardless if she thinks I’m an abomination, she should have said, “thank you,” and then judge me or whatever she loves doing so much. But, she said she didn’t need my prayers.

What would Jesus do Christine? Really.

Dani MOCKS God ---she MOCKS Jesus by the way she behaves. She is no more of a Christian than the Phelps’ family. Have you seen what her husband and her have done on that radio show about me? They had nothing better to do than to sit up 4am talking for an hour about my life. Why aren’t they in bed together at that time---I wonder??? Maybe focusing on my lifestyle is more satisfying than going to bed with one another.

Think about it.

I’m really not a bad person Christine. I love God with all my heart, and I wish people weren’t so focused on the things other people do. My relationship with my partner is a loving one. We put God first, and then our relationship comes in second. I love her so much. She is my best friend in the whole world. The years we’ve been together were incredible and still going. How can anyone tell us it’s wrong, when we’re a family…we’re so happy together? Do you see what I’m trying to say?

If someone is truly happy, it’s manifested by the way they treat others. But, when someone is extremely unhappy about their own lives, they manifest it in the way Dani does. She hates everyone who disagrees with her. Seriously. That’s the way it appears to me. At least I can say that. Maybe she secretly likes these people, but just angry over her own life.

You can feed me any scripture you want. I know the bible – almost by heart. I have most of it in my memory and I read it daily. I’m familiar with it, so no need to quote any of it to me. If you want, you can “share” it with me, instead of throwing the passages in my face, but all I want is to talk to a Christian who loves Jesus, and doesn’t love to make fun of people’s depression/anxiety disorders, as Dani has done so well.

What did you think of her making fun of my depression and anxiety? Do you feel that was what Jesus would have done?

Honestly answer the question, because I would love to hear what you have to say. Words are powerful. You can lift someone’s spirit up and edify them, or you can tear them down.

Which do you choose?

~Deb said...

And, what would Dani have done if I was weak enough to fall for her insulting remarks regarding my depression?

What if I committed suicide due to her words? Would this make her happy? Think about this---one day, she's going to make someone feel so awful about themselves, that they're going to finally end it.

That's the scary part about "Dani's words".

She is truly, an evil person with an evil heart Christine.

You're better than that----just keep her out of your site/sight. You'll be better off.

~Deb said...

And, I didn't delete those comments! (heh)

The other comments were a personal message that I only wanted to share with you. Hopefully you kept that confidential, because it's all true.

Christinewjc said...


Several points to go over with you.

1. Did you or did you not deliberately lie about me regarding what I share vs. what the Phelps cult believes?

2. Whatever Dani and Mark share is their business.

3. You haven't faced up to, nor admitted, your own incorrect assumptions. Why take your eyes off of the true issue(s) at hand (specifically, that concerns disagreements between you and I) and get off into tangents about other people?

4. I really do not want to get in the middle of your ongoing battle with Dani and her husband. That is between you and them. I have never listened to their radio show so I do not know what they have said about you. I don't have the time to read every blogpost, either. In fact, I don't really care to know any of the details about your spat with them, anyway.

5. Agreeing with a person on one or two points doesn't automatically mean that I agree with them on all points.

6. Yet again, you accusingly wrote:

"I see you trudging along the borderline of the same mindset of the Phelps’ family."

Did you even read the repost of our conversation at Mark's blog or not?? Do I have to post it a third time?

In case you STILL haven't noticed, there is a huge, fundamental difference between that cult's beliefs and mine (which is traditional Biblical Christianity and faith). You are being totally disingenuous not to admit that.

7. Your relationship with your partner is your business. However, when you claim that homosexual behavior is accepted by the God of the Bible, that is where we part company. The Bible is clear on this issue and the fact that you are preaching the opposite of what the Bible teaches to other people who are seeking Jesus concerns me. You may feel it is your duty as a gay Christian to tell people that homosexual behavior is not sin. So be it. No one is going to change a closed mind on that issue. However, Biblical truth does not back up your teachings. This is where we part company as Christian believers. You may think that it's not important. I disagree. The salvation of souls is at stake. But you already know my position on this so there is no need to continue to elaborate.

8. I am sorry that you suffer from anxiety and depression. I will pray that God releases you from those ailments. Since Dani hurts you on these issues, perhaps you should not respond to her anymore. Again, I haven't seen her mocking you because of your condition. But if she does, then I would not agree that it is a good thing for her to do. I know too many people who have battled depression (in one form or another) and it has always been my desire to try and help them through it through encouragement and inspiriation...which only genuinely comes through knowing the Lord.

9. Of course I don't want you (or anyone else) to commit suicide. Frankly, I think you are too strong a personality to ever succomb to that. Like you said, "if God is for me (you), who can be against me (you)?"

The only one that I can think of is Satan. He does prowl around like a "roaring lion" trying to get people away from salvation through Jesus Christ. Jesus did tell us that "in this world, you will have trouble; but take heart! For I have overcome the world." He is our hope, comfort and salvation. No one can "snatch us out of His hands" when we belong to Him. So, when people mock you or hurt you (been there, had that!) just remember Who you ultimately belong to and the mocking and hurting will just roll off of your back!

I've got more to share, but my time is limited right now. I hope we can still have a civil dialogue and continue to share our love for the Lord on our blogs.

Take care and God bless,

Christinewjc said...

P.S. I did keep those posts confidential and will continue to do so at your request.

~Deb said...

1. I said that it borderlines upon the same faith. It’s the seed of the same mindset that they were founded upon. I don’t think you would picket at a funeral, but you do a good job on other people’s comment on their blogs. I thought better of you- because you’re different than them. Siding with Dani, who in my eyes, is JUST the same as the Phelps’ is a perfect example of what I was trying to get across. But, calling me a “liar” for what my opinion is isn’t so.

2. But, your comments to them were quite alarming. That’s why I lumped you into the same category.

3. If I am incorrect about your harsh judgments against me and my eternal damnation as you see it, then I apologize.

4. Me either to tell you the truth!

5. True. But when you said, ” Just like the attitude that murder is not sin would be damaging to the person's soul (whomever might believe such a thing); the damage of the attitude that homosexuality is not sin might cause a person to remain in that unrepentant state of being. Thus, they would miss the opportunity for the forgiveness offered through Christ and reconciliation with God.” To me, you were basically comparing me to a murderer. In my beliefs, and what GOD has spoken to me, through Scripture and through many messages, loving another person of the same gender is NOT a sin. The bible speaks in terms of promiscuity----not love. The homosexual “acts” were taken from the days when they were participating in orgies and being immorally unclean and unsafe. This led to disease and illnesses that still goes on today. We are forgiven for the past, through Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Our sins are washed away. Repentance? I repent everyday for my sins and draw near to God. How can you say I don’t repent for my sins? I sin everyday, just like everyone on this earth. I have a temper that flares up from time to time…(of course I can totally blame PMS! ha), I gossip, I tell white lies sometimes and I even think impure thoughts occasionally. I ask for forgiveness and I know that in my heart, God loves me and He’ll forgive me 77 more times. I don’t take that for granted mind you, however, I choose to see that as a gift of God, through my faith and His sacrifice.

6. Yes, I have seen it. I said “trudging along the same mindset”, but I know that you’re not THAT extreme. I just see you siding with someone who said they were sending “hate” up to New York to get me, (of course with a cute squirrel) and siding with Dani. Your character says a lot about who you side with, however, I see you as an individual.

7. It’s not a sin. Promiscuity is. Immoral acts of sex is. Give me ANY scripture, and I will tell you what that applies to. There are stories behind those words, if you read the bible carefully…and with an open heart.

8. You said, ” I haven't seen her mocking you because of your condition.” Let me show you what she wrote:
“Deb – One more thing about your sappy little prayer for me – Save it, I don’t need your prayers.

Unlike you, I am extremely happy and satisfied with my life. I am married to a wonderful man with three beautiful girls enjoying the daily fulfillment family life has to offer – something that you will never be able to embrace.

Why? Because you are a neurotic lesbian who suffers from depression, OCD, ADD and half a million other mental disorders which you are dependent on medication and therapy for. Perhaps your depression and all these other disorders are the Gods way of saying that your abominable lifestyle is abnormal and is conflicting with the Holy Sprit who you claim to serve?

Pray for yourself, Deb. Pray that the Lord will bring you a spirit of humility which will bring you towards repentance so you don’t have to suffer from all these illnesses any longer. Pray that Jesus Christ will set you free from your bondage of sin and prideful perversion. Pray that you will learn to bring Glory to God instead of mocking Him.”

Do you think that’s a loving message? Do you want to side with that? I THANK YOU for praying for me about my anxiety and depression. I’m doing okay lately, but sometimes, I suffer through some depressive bouts, and I come out of it fairly quickly. It stems from my anxiety attacks, and then it goes straight into depression. When I pray and meditate on it, God helps me miraculously. So, I do appreciate your prayers----it’s the best thing anyone can do for me.

9. I am too strong for that. My faith in God is way too strong for me to ever become weak as a “person” and go the easy way out. I agree with you upon Satan prowling around. He does get to me with depression and sometimes, when it’s bad, I shut down. But, with prayer and a close relationship with God, I spring back up. Encouraging words like you’ve just said help me too!

And thank you for keeping those comments confidential. I was in a heated moment, and I also was telling some things that maybe I should have kept to myself, however, I feel you’re different and need to show you what’s behind the words of some people. I’m not sure why I received those, but, take it for what it’s worth.

Christinewjc said...


Your beliefs on the "gay is OK" with the Bible issue is only a recent phenomenon. I suggest that you read Queer Theology Exposed in order to recognize why I am correct about this issue.

I have never stated that "loving a person of the same sex is sin." The sex acts between two people of the same gender is sin. The Leviticus verses are clear on this point. They don't say, "do not lie with a man as a woman in orgy fashion." They specifically say, "do not lie with a man as with a woman" and "do not lie with a woman as with a man." It is an abomination." So, the sex act is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, not the people.

As far as eternal salvation is concerned, unrepentant homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period. Just like unrepentant murderers would not. I was not comparing you to a "murderer," I was pointing out that ANY sin that is unrepented of can keep a person out of God's kingdom. The fact that you are preaching and teaching your belief that homosexual behavior is not sin, could cause people to believe that they never need to repent of it.

I remember clearly that you have told me in the past that you had once repented of homosexual acts. If you are genuinely saved (and, I cannot know for sure but God does) then you are currently in a state of backsliding on this issue. You won't lose your salvation, but you will have to answer to Jesus himself at the Judgment Seat of Christ (for believers only) for why you passed on this misinformation to others. It will affect the rewards granted to you in eternity (where the quip, "getting into heaven by the skin of your teeth" comes from. You will lose out on rewards that God would love to grant to you.

That may not seem so bad to you.
However, those homosexuals who are not saved (because they have believed your false doctrine) will appear at the Great White Throne Judgment. There, the degree of punishment is given. As Jesus said, "those who do not believe are already condemned." This would include you and I if we were not saved by the shed blood at the cross of Christ for the remission of our sins.

IMO, it is better not to pass on misinformation from the Bible and risk allowing even one person whom we are attempting to evangelize to miss eternal salvation.

~Deb said...

You stated, ”I suggest that you read Queer Theology Exposed in order to recognize why I am correct about this issue.”

Why “you’re correct on this issue”? Faith in based on ‘belief’ and not science.

You keep referencing Leviticus. Those laws no longer apply. I eat shellfish, and a lot of other people are eating shellfish, sitting on the couch of a woman who is menstruating---but do we get thrown into hell for it? No.


I used to feel guilty about my lifestyle, due to judgmental Christians at my church. They made me feel shameful about my union with my partner. But, through prayer, studying the bible and having a strong relationship with God, I was overjoyed that He accepts me ‘as is’. I have had my own spiritual experiences that led me to this conclusion. So, in my eyes, in my faith, you’re not correct. You’re under false interpretations of misreading the scriptures and only pointing out specific sins, as most “Christians” will do. Read the stories behind the scripture, read the full scripture as well and know that Leviticus does not apply to Christians. That was the old law and we are no longer bound to it. So, you can stop using that argument.

I do not spread false doctrine. I speak straight from the bible Christine. I also speak from my own experiences with God. My faith in God is huge. NO one can tell me that I’m wrong. I share my faith and what I experience. You call that false?

In my own opinion, it’s best not to call other Christians “liars”, due to their faith in God. Your judgmental remarks will never get you a seat in heaven. Being patient, warm and loving to others will. Do what Jesus did.

~Deb said...

And, furthermore, it’s Christians such as yourself that make me want to spread the message even further across the nations. So thank you for the encouragement!

Christinewjc said...

I can tell from your comments that you didn't read the "Queer Theology" article. If you did, you may have been convicted by the Holy Spirit of God because it goes into the topic deeply, thoroughly, biblically and accurately to dispel your "homosexual behavior is not sin" mantra.

My friend Susan was so right. She was a lesbian for 20 years and thought that it was O.K. Then, her mind, heart, soul and spirit was transformed by Christ. She gave up the lesbian behavior, then a few years later, gave up the identity. She once wrote to me (paraphrased) 'The greatest deception is the belief that people think they can't be deceived.'

It isn't a coincidence that the words, "God gave them over to sinful lusts of the flesh" is given shortly before naming a list of sins, including homosexual behavior.

If you read the Queer Theology essay, you would have seen why you are being taught at your liberal, gay-behavior-affirming church that "the laws of Leviticus don't apply anymore" and how comparing a ceremonial law (not eating shellfish) to equal the moral law is an incorrect approach to Biblical exegesis.

But, a closed mind often stays that way.

It's unfortunate, though. We could have had a good discussion about what the essay reveals about the kind of churches that currently skew the Word of God to accomodate a "favorite sin."

You used to feel guilty about your lifestyle. Perhaps it was God, through the Person of the Holy Spirit, knocking on the door of your heart to re-examine yourself on this issue.

I didn't call you a "liar." I have said that you have been deceived...big difference.

It doesn't matter which specific sins are pointed out by me or any other Christian. When there is a need for correction of false doctrine, then the Bible is the final authority. If the current wave of heresy and apostasy included the sin of...let's say...fornication, and there were fornication-approving-affirming churches, preachers, and teachers out there in droves attempting to counter what the Bible says about fornication, then I would be sounding the alarm bells about that particular sin. The only reason why the sin of homosexual behavior is often pointed out by conservative, traditional, Bible-based Christians is because it is the issue that is currently in our faces, attempting to overturn 2,000 years of sound doctrine that upholds the truth that homosexual behavior is sin and an abomination in the eyes of God.

I find it quite telling that you said this:

"And, furthermore, it’s Christians such as yourself that make me want to spread the message even further across the nations. So thank you for the encouragement!"

You said, "to spread the message, (and...what message is that? Your own?) not God's message...which is steadfastly true, unchanging, and unequivocally revealed in the pages of Scripture.

God's Word can't be clearer on the subject of homosexual behavior being sin and something which we are to avoid. It can't be countered successfully, either, as the Queer Theology article and this additional post demonstrates.

The only thing that finite human beings can do is continue to reject the clear, Biblically based message on this issue. It appears that you have made your choice to reject what the Bible teaches, and replace it with your own gay-behavior-affirming secular humanistic philosophy.

Jesus said that "his kingdom is not of this world." Homosexual promotion and indoctrination is certainly something that is part of the secular-humanistic world. Doesn't it bother you that you are for a behavior that Jesus, the Living Word, and the Bible, God's written Word, is against?

~Deb said...

Christine, all I can say is that I totally disagree. The message that I spread is "GOD'S" message----through scripture and other sources. I can't change your mind...and you can't change my mind, because my heart is where God speaks to me.

The only reason why I felt guilty when I was younger was due to mindsets and beliefs in the churchs such as people as yourself ---(NOT saying that it's bad) but, I found solace in coming to God for approval, and not people's.

I hope that makes sense.

God bless and thank you for your time!