Mark's post entitled "A gay dream in the modern gospel" is a must read.
Mark writes:
The last words the gay dreamers in the modern gospel speak are obedience, submission, and sacrifice.
Yep!
My friend over at gmcwatch also exposes what the truth is about the gay christian reprobate movement:
I think it is accurate to tie the gay christian movement to such theological terms as reprobate, false, etc, etc. We are commanded to earnestly contend for the faith (fight to maintain the true faith) once delivered to the saints and that is what we are doing. We are not character assassinating but attacking and defending truth with God's word and any corroborating evidence, reason and logic where applicable.
The church at large has been afraid to really deal with this inhouse heretical movement because of exactly what Deb did to you. Attack your character. They have had a hands off approach, but the Holy Spirit told me no more free passes. Take their doctrine to task and expose it to the light. So we are trying to do that with a spirit of excellence.
If you are not familiar with the history between Deb, Mark and I, then I suggest that you at least read through this post and it will give you a basic idea of what has been going on in our conversations.
Next, read Deb's latest diatribe against Mark and I.
Mark has often responded with biblical truth against Deb's heretical worldview and statements. Deb lashes out and is angry with him because, quite frankly, her argument is with God's Word, not us.
The following is a copy of my latest comment at her blog. There are several links that confront the deception of reprobate theology and blow the lid off of Deb's heresy. I hope that you will take the time to read them all.
This issue is extremely important, people. It is not a "little denominational spat" between Christian believers. This conversation is an example of what the book of Jude warns us would happen the closer we get to the end times. We do not know the day nor hour, but as Jesus told us, we are to look for the "signs of the times" and confront, not ignore, the deception that is happening right before our very eyes!
In Christ,
Christine
Here is a copy of my latest comment at Deb's blog:
I guess you missed this part in my comment in this thread entitled "Is Scripture Authoritative In Your Life?":
Deb wrote: When I speak of spiritual experiences, I speak of the Holy Spirit talking and moving within me.
I responded with several Scriptures that tell us what God's Word says (concerning the Holy Spirit's leading).
Now go back and read the verses. I pray that you will see that the Holy Spirit living within the believer does not lead a person away from the truth of God's Word. Other kinds of "spirits" indwelling a person might do that, but not the Holy Spirit.
I find it quite telling that you didn't link to that particular thread at my blog, Deb.
Mark posted an awesome quote from Dr. John MacArthur that totally demolishes your heresy regarding this quote of yours:
Mark wrote: "Here is Deb's word, not God's..."
Deb wrote: "If you believe that Jesus is Lord and proclaim it with your mouth, then you are automatically saved!!!"
Mark: "Wrong! and foolish."
John MacArthur quote:
What does the Bible teach about the relationship between salvation and repentance? First, it teaches that repentance is essential to salvation. One cannot truly believe unless he repents, and one cannot truly repent unless he believes. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin (but they are not synonymous terms). Acts 11:18 and 2 Peter 3:9 are two of the many verses that teach that repentance is necessary for salvation. Perhaps 2 Timothy 2:25 best sums up the relationship between repentance and saving faith when it speaks of "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (see also Acts 20:21).
Second, the Greek word for repentance (metanoia) means "to have another mind," but it cannot properly be defined to exclude a sense of hatred of and penitence for sin. The biblical concept of repentance involves far more than merely a casual change of thinking. Biblically, a person who repents does not continue willfully in sin. Repentance is a turning from sin, and it always results in changed behavior (Luke 3:8). While sorrow from sin is not equivalent to repentance, it is certainly an element of scriptural repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10).
Finally, despite what is being widely taught today, affirming that repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus' lordship are necessary to salvation does not "add" anything to the requirement of faith for salvation. It is not "faith plus repentance" that saves, but rather a repentant faith. The notion that salvation is possible apart from a genuine, heartfelt repentance, which includes a deep hatred of sin, is a relatively new one, neither believed nor taught by the people of God until the twentieth century.
Written by Dr John MacArthur
You need to read all of the following:
Would Jesus sanction sin?
Reprobate Theology: The homosexual seduction of the American church
Patriarchs of the Christian Faith, Early Writers Clearly Condemned Homosexuality
God's Standard Regarding Homosexuality
Just so you don't miss this comment over at gay christian movement watch from a commenter named "Taressa" to a gay christian movement advocate named "Brian," I have provided the sections of her comment that will give you what you claim we haven't provided; scriptural referencse that condemn homosexuality:
I just wanted to send you a response to your post about the lack of scriptural references condemning homosexuality. Please read Lev. 18:22, 20:13, and Romans 1:26-27.
Also there is 1Cor. 6:9(KJV) that states,
9Know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
abusers of themselves with mankind
NIV
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Amplified
9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
There you go Brian. Now, I would like for you to show me scriptural references that condone homosexuality. What this really boils down to is sin. Not “gay” sin
or “straight” sin but SIN and until you see it for what it really is, it won’t matter how many scriptural references I send you.
Also if you send me scriptures, please don’t send me scriptures about God’s love that many homosexuals use out of context. God’s love is not the question, it is
how do you line up with His Word. I am not judging you but from what I have read from your other posts, you are quite content with your lifestyle despite it
being contrary to sound doctrine.
Lastly, I wanted to include a portion of an email from a dear blogging friend over at gay christian movement watch. This person has been reading and studying our convos and has given me permission to share the following:
gcmwatch:
THANK YOU for you diligence to expose false doctrine.
I wanted to point out in your latest post a case in point with Deb.
You, according to scripture, attacked her false beliefs. She attacked your character. You gave the scripture, she gave her opinion of you. This is exactly what we are pointing out at gcm watch. There is a reason why they will not engage other Christians with scripture. They are either (1) afraid (2) hate it (3) know there doctrine cannot be supported.
We need to hammer this home. Her first sentence about concentrating on homosexuality is evasive and tactical. She wants you to feel guilty and therefore abandon what you are saying. And she wants to refocus anyone's attention on perceived personalities flaws (yours) instead of what the scripture is clearly saying. She wants to focus on the good news. But the good news is "REPENT for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." That was Jesus FIRST sermon. Matt 4:17. And notice it came immediately after his tangle with the devil.
Christine, I don't know of any other false doctrine movement which fits the bill better than the gay christian movement.
Also let me explain why I write "gay christian movement" as such. Once the word Christian is paired with a sin condition as an unrepentant adjective, it loses it power as a reflection of the Living Christ. So I decapitalize it to emphasize that.It would be the same if someone would call themselves a "prochoice christian" or a "adult film star christian". We have to take back the standard of holiness by putting a difference between what is holy and unholy. Lev 10:10
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While researching a Matthew Henry commentary (Re: Exodus 7:8-13) on Pharaoh's "hardened heart," I found this portion which can also be applied towards our current discussion here:
What men dislike, because it opposes their pride and lusts, they will not be convinced of; but it is easy to cause them to believe things they wish to be true. God always sends with his word full proofs of its Divine authority; but when men are bent to disobey, and willing to object, he often permits a snare to be laid wherein they are entangled. The magicians were cheats, trying to copy the real miracles of Moses by secret sleights or jugglings, which to a small extent they succeeded in doing, so as to deceive the bystanders, but they were at length obliged to confess they could not any longer imitate the effects of Divine power. None assist more in the destruction of sinners, than such as resist the truth by amusing men with a counterfeit resemblance of it. Satan is most to be dreaded when transformed into an angel of light.
Applied to the deception of reprobate "gay" theology:
What men dislike, because it opposes their pride and lusts, they will not be convinced of; but it is easy to cause them to believe things they wish to be true.
Yep. Reprobate "gay" theology sure fits the bill with that statement. They don't like the fact that the Bible specifically condemns "men lying with a man as with a woman" and "woman lying with a woman." "Gay" pride is legendary. Going after "strange flesh" is described in Jude, and lust of the flesh is paramount in such behavior.
Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
They continue to "believe that which they wish to be true" but the Bible is clear that we are to have a repentant heart and faith. Saying that homosexual behavior is "not sin" does not make it so. The wisdom of God is far above the wisdom of any man or woman! Moral of the story: Their objections, resistance, and anger is because God's Word convicts them in their heart of hearts.
God always sends with his word full proofs of its Divine authority;
Can't argue with Scripture! A reprobate can ignore, attempt to falsify, attempt to twist, change the subject altogether and instead attack the person presenting biblical truth; but God's Word is Divine, authoritative, unchangable and lives forever!
but when men are bent to disobey, and willing to object, he often permits a snare to be laid wherein they are entangled.
This is similar to the scripture that tells us "God gave them over to sinful lusts of the flesh." It is a form of adultery, idolatry (they love their sexual perversion so much that they are unwillingly to repent to God) and reprobate philosophy applied to their own made up theology.
The magicians were cheats, trying to copy the real miracles of Moses by secret sleights or jugglings, which to a small extent they succeeded in doing, so as to deceive the bystanders,
Deceiving the bystanders. That's what gay christian theology preachers and teachers are involved with doing. They are trying to copy the real gospel of Christ with a counterfeit brand of pseudo-gospel.
but they were at length obliged to confess they could not any longer imitate the effects of Divine power.
But of course, they can't keep up the charade because God's True Gospel is revealed in His Word. They can't keep up the imitation when the power of the Holy Spirit's leading shines the light upon their darkness.
Christians who aren't familiar enough with the Bible sometimes get caught up in the gay theology lie. The following statement says it so well:
None assist more in the destruction of sinners, than such as resist the truth by amusing men with a counterfeit resemblance of it.
Amen!!
Lastly, a warning to those who spread such error:
Satan is most to be dreaded when transformed into an angel of light.
The followers of such darkness oftentimes do not realize the peril that they are in when they follow those who present a false gospel. This is why we are to "test the spirits; to see that they are genuinely of God."
Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
1Jo 4:1 BELOVED, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that[fn1] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
1Jo 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
Curious and no disrespect intended, but what determines whether Deb's readers have comments that merit your response? Is it based on how you see Christ? Is it someone that you think you may be able to convince to your ideology? I respect your knowledge of the Bible; it is very impressive, but when you quote all these verses, what is your point? You bury your reader with dogma--did Jesus do such a thing? No, he lived, walked and ate with sinners, never placing himself above them. He also used scripture with discretion--if we are dealing with the word of God, then we should use it sparingly as he did in order to make our points clear. I bear you no ill will, Christine, and I am not attacking you, but I think you could do more with less. I am sorry you have such issues with Deb; maybe it's time to give it to God and move on.
Hi Enemy,
Welcome to Talkwisdom (I think...).
To answer your first question.
I don't think that personal attacks are productive. Some of the people over there only did that (to several of the Bible-based Christians commenting) and did not contribute to the topic at hand. It has been my goal not to engage in unproductive dialogue. However, when someone asks a good question or makes an intriguing comment (relative to the topic) then I am happy to respond.
I don't know much about your history, but I did glance at your profile. It appears that you have several active blogs going. I wasn't sure which one to read in order to learn about you. When I have more time perhaps I can do that.
The verse quotes were in an effort to help Deb see the following:
1. Do not believe every spirit. God's Word tells us to "test the spirits to see if they are of God."
2. To demonstrate that Scripture informs us that the Holy Spirit of God would not lead a person away from God's Word. Deb has often claimed that God "speaks to her" and tells her that homosexual behavior is OK. This is why I warned that she should "test the spirits" and test what she hears against what Scripture really says.
3. Deb's belief that homosexual behavior is not sin is just that...her belief. The ind1sputable evidence in Scripture confirms God's position on the issue. It is sin and an abomination. For most of the last 2,000 years since Christ's resurrection, there has not been one biblical scholar that has ever said otherwise. Deb's "gay christian movement" philosophy is a recent 20th century heresy that is being spread (both knowingly, and unknowingly) by those who have been deceived by it. The book of Jude warns us about such heresy. I'm just pointing out the obvious error of this kind of thinking and demonstrating it through God's Word.
You asked: "You bury your reader with dogma--did Jesus do such a thing?"
There is no way for me to know that one way or the other because John informs us:
Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Also, Jesus spoke in parables and told us why he did so. See Matthew 13:10-17
Let me ask you this. What do you think the following parable is telling us?
(Using NLT):
Mat 13:24 Here is another story Jesus told: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field.
Mat 13:25 But that night as everyone slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat.
Mat 13:26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.
Mat 13:27 The farmer's servants came and told him, `Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds!'
Mat 13:28 " `An enemy has done it!' the farmer exclaimed. " `Shall we pull out the weeds?' they asked.
Mat 13:29 "He replied, `No, you'll hurt the wheat if you do.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn.' "
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