Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Stripped bare: 'Gay' school plot unveiled

On the heels of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's signature on S.B. 777, which opponents describe as a homosexual indoctrination plan for education districts, a pro-homosexual lobbying organization in California has launched its campaign to infuse a "gay" influence into public school curricula.

read more digg story

My comment at Digg:

The homosexual agenda is not only spreading in the public schools, but also inflicting great harm in the churches. The following is a conversation I had with another person from my TalkWisdom message board that shares exactly why this agenda must be confronted, challenged and prayerfully ejected from our schools and rejected within and from our churches.

We can learn a valuable lesson from Lot

"There is nothing new under the sun. There are no new or improved people, and there is certainly no new Christianity!"

The oxymoron of so-called "gay christians" is an attempt at establishing a "new" Christianity. They have even created a bible version which re-interprets (or, eliminates) any verses that condemn homosexuality.

"Heterosexuals sin their share of sexual sins, too.
However, as this "lifestyle" marches into the church at a rapid pace, we have to ask ourselves why they want to join what clearly condemns them."

I think that they are either clearly deceived and convinced that homosexual acts are not sin or an abomination to God; or, refuse to believe the Word of God on this issue. It is the "pride" issue that allows them to be so deceived. Born-again Christians must not compromise the truth about this issue, but also must proclaim it in truth and love. It is difficult to do because we are often automatically unfairly labeled as 'bigots', 'haters', 'homophobes' etc. We must remember that we have to work through these attacks and realize that the souls of those caught up in homosexual sin (as with any other sin) are at stake. Jesus told us, "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

"I can't help but notice what happens when the crowd gets to Lot's house, the first thing we know is that they couldn't get in and Lot tries to defend the purity of his home at great cost. Lot states that the men are under his roof, and therefore, under his protection."

We can learn a valuable lesson from Lot. As Christians now are required to "defend the purity of our homes at great cost" too. I think that Christians have finally been awakened to the threat of this type of sin overtaking the moral compass of our country and it needs to be stopped.

"Then, the crowd who wanted to have sex with Lot's male guests threatens Lot and attempts to break down his door. The men say to Lot, "Get out of our way," and they kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door."

Homosexual activists will continue to attempt to "break down the doors" of morality in our country and we must diligently do all we can to prevent this.

"The angels then pulled Lot back inside and struck the men (young and old) with blindness, so they couldn't find the door!"

When it gets so bad, the Lord's angels will be there to help. We must continue to keep up the fight to defeat the homosexual agenda while bathing our efforts in constant prayer.

"Lot is told to take his family and flee from that place, or they will also be swept away when the city is punished. He hesitates, and the angels have to take him by the hand in order to lead him to safety. Isn't that a picture of many in the church today? We know the truth, but do we act on it? There is a choice to be made, and many church are compromising on this issue."

Couldn't have said this better! Don't stay in a church that compromises on this issue! We have seen people leave the Episcopalian churches in droves because of the controversy over the first elected practicing homosexual man named Gene Robinson. The pride of this individual to incite such division in the church so that he "gets his way" to be a bishop just plain selfishness and is a blatant example of allowing heresy to creep into a church which ultimately leads to apostasy.

[Added @ 9:16 a.m. PT - Many churches have now become actively involved in countering this indoctrination bill. It appears to have been "the last straw" in the former "heads in the sand" conservative Christian non-activism. When it comes to the children - we must NOT compromise on such an issue.]

"Did you notice the mocking laughter when Lot tells his sons-in-law that they must leave because the Lord is about to destroy the whole city? Although Lot is slow to action, Lot does not disbelieve or ignore the warnings of the Lord, although he seems rather shell-shocked. Everyone else is laughing at the idea of
a final judgment, does this confuse Lot and slow him down?"

Today, homosexual activists are also laughing and have convinced a large portion of liberal Christian believers that there will be no future judgment on those who practice homosexual sin and/or promote, celebrate and accept such sin.

"What would have happened in the story if the men had gotten into Lot's house because Lot had allowed let them to come in? I think it would have been a very different story for Lot. No, Lot resists, and the crowd does over-power him, but the angels come to his aid."

There are liberal "gay-affirming" churches that have let practicing homosexuals into their churches. Rather than counseling them to confess their propensity to sin in this manner and urging them to "renew their minds in Christ Jesus", they are promoting, accepting and celebrating their sin right along with them. They are (knowingly or not) preventing them from the saving grace of Jesus Christ by promoting such heresy and apostasy! Too many lost souls can result from this deception!

"From what I know of Lot, he was basically obedient, but not eager to give up his comforts. He actually complains as he escapes a fiery doom, bargaining around the commands so he can stay in a nearby town, rather than having to flee all the way to the mountains."

God remembered Abraham in sparing Lot. It was Abraham who pleaded for someone in Sodom to be spared. Abraham's impassioned plea that God not sweep away the righteous along with the wicked turns into a winnowing process, and finally reduces down to one family, and out of those, not all were saved. Lot's wife looked back and turned to a pillar of salt after being warned not to look or stop for any reason, his sons-in-law laughed at him and would not follow the family out.

[Added: This is a sobering warning sign right out of the Old Testament regarding today's "sin masquerading as tolerance" of the homosexual "christian" movement. It is as if those who claim to be saved still look back longingly at their previous sin and desire to unabashedly continue in it. This fact is not only true of homosexual sin, but also true of heterosexual sins...and there are plenty!

Recall that Jesus stated, "Remember Lot's wife."

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

In that portion of Scripture, Jesus was describing what the world would be like prior, and upcoming, to His return.

Why did he say, "Remember Lot's wife?"

The reason is made clear in the next verse:

Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Lot's wife turned and looked back longingly at the sins which were rampant in the city of Sodom. She was seeking to "save her life" as it was in that sinful city, rather than "lose that former life" in order to be preserved from its effect!!

This is the crux of the need for repentance, people!! Jesus is telling us not to look back upon our former selves in which were steeped in the deception of sin!!]

The liberal media and people who resist the idea that all that they do, whether good or evil will one day be revealed before the feet of Jesus Christ. The ignorance of not taking Christians' warnings on this issue and their pride not allowing them to stop their promotion of this evil and sinful lifestyle will one day be exposed for the evil that it is and how it affected the destiny of thousands, if not millions, of eternal souls to eternal destruction.

In (Revelation 18:4-5 NIV) it says: "Then I heard another voice from heaven say "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes." This is after the rapture, when God judges Babylon, an idolatrous religious system, a one-world religion. Although the bride of Christ is safely in heaven by then, it's clearly a call to believers who are saved during the tribulation. In all times, God is calling us to separate ourselves from worldly religious systems or pay the price with them for their sins.


Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Rom. 12:2 NIV

Certainly true words of wisdom from Romans 12:2 !!

[ Quoted text Written by: Kyrie Eleison ]
[ Replies written by Christine ]

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9

P.S. I recently viewed a video which was designed to help Christians witness to homosexuals. I thought it was well done. However, several "gays" were not receptive. Sometimes, no matter how lovingly a person attempts to be, the fact is that repentance (which means confessing and turning away from sins) for any sin hurts. The Good News of the gospel cannot take affect until the bad news of our sin nature is exposed.

One evangelist replied to a homosexual man who stated that he was "born that way" by stating that he is right. He was born that way. The Bible says he was born that way. How does the Bible do this? Through pointing out that we ALL are born with a sin nature that is rebellious, antagonistic, and contrary to the Holiness and Righteousness of God! The Bible is crystal clear on the issue that homosexual sex is sinful. A man is not to "lie with a man as with a woman. That is abomination."

Now, after reading all of this, we must go back and examine the true motives of homosexual activists with their lousy bill SB 777. They are trying to change the minds of children who have been brought up by parents who trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They are trying to convert these children from what they have learned in God's Word, the Bible, to the sinful practices of homosexual, bi-sexual, transgender etc. secular humanistic worldviews in order to desensitize, jam, and convert them to their radical liberal leftist ways of thinking. This is serious messing with young minds people!!! Don't let ANYONE convince you other wise.

Sorry for this long comment but perhaps I should repost this portion from "The Marketing of Evil" book:

[Quoted text] Rondeau explains Kirk and Madsen's techniques of "desensitization," "jamming," and "conversion" this way:

"Desensitization is described as inundating the public in a "continuous flood of gay-related advertising, presented in the least offensive fashion possible. If straights can't shut off the shower, they may at least eventually get used to being wet." But, the activists did not mean advertising in the usual marketing context but, rather, quite a different approach: "The main thing is to talk about gayness until the issue becomes thoroughly tiresome." They add, "[S]eek desensitization and nothing more. … If you can get [straights] to think [homosexuality] is just another thing – meriting no more than a shrug of the shoulders – then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won."

This planned hegemony is a variant of the type that Michael Warren describes in "Seeing Through the Media" where it "is not raw overt coercion; it is one group's covert orchestration of compliance by another group through structuring the consciousness of the second group."
"Structuring the consciousness" of others? If that phraseology is uncomfortably reminiscent of various mind control and brainwashing tales you might have heard over the years, don’t be surprised. Manipulating the emotions and thereby restructuring the thoughts and beliefs of large numbers of people is what modern marketing is all about.
"Jamming," explains Rondeau, "is psychological terrorism meant to silence expression of or even support for dissenting opinion." Radio counselor and psychologist Dr. Laura Schlessinger experienced big-time jamming during the run-up to her planned television show. Outraged over a single comment critical of homosexuals she had made on her radio program, activists launched a massive intimidation campaign against the television program's advertisers. As a result, the new show was stillborn.

But perhaps the highest-profile example of jamming occurred after the 1998 murder of University of Wyoming freshman Matthew Shepard. Lured from a bar, robbed and savagely beaten by two men, Shepard died five days later of head injuries. In the frenzied, saturation media coverage that followed, the press and homosexual activists singled out conservative Christians as having created a "climate of anti-gay hate" in which such a brutal act could happen.

NBC's Today show took the lead, focusing on a Christian ad campaign running at the time that offered to help homosexuals change their orientation. Reporter David Gregory narrated: "The ads were controversial for portraying gays and lesbians as sinners who had made poor choices, despite the growing belief that homosexuality may be genetic. … Have the ads fostered a climate of anti-gay hate that leads to incidents like the killing of Matthew Shepard? Gay rights activists say the ads convey a message that gay people are defective."

And in a now-infamous interview, Today's Katie Couric asked Wyoming Governor Jim Geringer: "Some gay rights activists have said that some conservative political organizations like the Christian Coalition, the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family are contributing to this anti-homosexual atmosphere by having an ad campaign saying if you are a homosexual you can change your orientation. That prompts people to say, 'If I meet someone who's homosexual, I'm going to take action to try to convince them or try to harm them.' Do you believe that such groups are contributing to this climate?"

Consciously or not, the media were following Kirk and Madsen's playbook to the letter, discrediting anyone who disagreed with the homosexual agenda by associating them with lowlife murderers. In reality, none of the Christian groups smeared by NBC had ever condoned mistreatment of homosexuals – in fact, they had explicitly condemned it.

As if to add even more shame to the whole-hog jamming of Christians after the Shepard murder, in 2004 a comprehensive new investigation by ABC News 20/20
concluded that homosexuality very likely wasn't a factor in Shepard's murder, but rather Shepard had been targeted for his money.

So much for desensitization and jamming. But what about "conversion"? Here, Kirk and Madsen announce defiantly:

"We mean conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean "subverting" the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends –
using the very processes that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard – whether they like it or not."

Transforming another person’s hatred into love ("warm regard") is the object of classic brainwashing. As Kirk and Madsen explain:

"In Conversion, we mimic the natural process of stereotype-learning, with the following effect: we take the bigot's good feelings about all-right guys, and attach them to the label "gay," either weakening or, eventually, replacing his bad feelings toward the label and the prior stereotype. … Whereas in Jamming the target is shown a bigot being rejected by his crowd for his prejudice against gays, in Conversion the target is shown his crowd actually associating with gays in good fellowship. Once again, it's very difficult for the average person, who, by nature and training, almost invariably feels what he sees his fellows feeling, not to respond in this knee-jerk fashion to a sufficiently calculated advertisement."

We're talking about some serious messing around with Americans' minds here. Do the homosexual activists thus engaged really know they're deceiving the public, or are they convinced they're just telling the truth?
"It makes no difference that the ads are lies," write Kirk and Madsen, "not to us, because we're using them to ethically good effect, to counter negative stereotypes that are every bit as much lies, and far more wicked ones."

Homosexualizing history

Another important technique promoted by "After the Ball," and employed repeatedly to great effect in recent years, is to claim that famous historical figures – "from Socrates to Eleanor Roosevelt, Tchaikovsky to Bessie Smith,
Alexander the Great to Alexander Hamilton, and Leonardo da Vinci to Walt Whitman" – were homosexual or bisexual.

Although the authors know these claims are unproven at best and often baseless (they refer to them as "suspected 'inverts'"), that doesn't stop them from
advocating the tactic.

A recent example of this was the highly publicized, though utterly unsubstantiated, speculation that Abraham Lincoln was a homosexual. Even more outrageous was the suggestion by openly "gay" New Hampshire Episcopal Bishop
Gene Robinson – a comment he quickly retracted after a firestorm of protest – that Jesus Christ was a homosexual!

As Kirk and Madsen explain:

"Famous historical figures are considered especially useful to us for two reasons: first, they are invariably dead as a doornail, hence in no position to deny the truth and sue for libel. Second, and more serious, the virtues and accomplishments that make these historic gay figures admirable cannot be gainsaid or dismissed by the public, since high school history textbooks have already set them in incontrovertible cement." [end of quoted text]

Remember, this book called "After the Ball" (and techniques described) was written way back in 1990!! How horrible it is that the brainwashing bill SB 777 has been passed in order to accomplish the radical homosexuals evil goal in that paragraph above!!!

Outraged yet???

Keep fighting the good fight, my conservative, Christian friends here on Digg and at this blog. The message boards, blogs, and Digg can be a great vehicle to expose what the "gay" agenda is really all about.


Christinewjc said...

Here is a comment at the Amazon "After the Ball" website:

By A Customer

As a summary of methods to manipulate and control opinion, this book is an example of how to achieve a goal (public opinion modification), without recourse to fact, reason, or fair play. A propagandists dream, it is best summed up in two of its own quotes "Thus propagandistic advertising can depict all opponents of the gay movement as homophobic bigots who are 'not Christian' and the propoganda can further show them as being criticized, hated and shunned}".... "Our effect is achieved without reference to facts, logic or proof.... the person's beliefs can be altered whether he is conscious of the attack or not" (p. 152-153) Answers questions as to how a group of less then 2% of the population, can attain political and media clout completely out of proportion to their size or condition.

It only got one "star." The truth hurts...doesn't it!

How sad the "legacy" of homosexual behavior has become for one of the authors:

Marshall Kirk, August 10, 2006
By Kevin M. Kirk (Albany, OR USA) - See all my reviews

I would like to say thank you to everyone who purchased and got something out of "After the Ball." Marshall Kirk was my uncle. I say "was" because he passed away a year ago. I'm glad his legacy will live on in this book and all of the genealogy research he'd done over the years.

Matt W. said...

Ok, so that was long, but WOW! I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I can see that it is all happening. There are times when I find this stuff to be tiresome. Not in arena's like this blog, since you handle this stuff marvelously, but whenever I see stuff on the news, it's hard to get upset, we see so much of it, I tend to sigh and shake my head, I mean, it's disgusting, but they really do wear you down.

This is differant though, this time they're not just wearing us down, now they are very actively and aggresively trying to indoctrinate our kids. Thank God that right now my kids are able attend a Christian School, and, at this point Florida has no such law, but if it stands in California, more states will follow, if not the Federal Government.

What a mess all of this stuff is. And, as I said before, I've got some personal experience in dealing with a gay person, and in my case, it is someone who has considerably more than a passing familiarity with the Scriptures, of course, in his case, he just ignores the parts he doesn't like.

One argument my brother used on me, any I'm sure it's really nothing new is, "Don't I have the right to be happy too?" I used to be somewhat taken aback by this, but then it hit me, if that's what it takes to make you happy, no you don't. Philipians 4:10-13 states: "But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, [therewith] to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." That is to say that we are to be content in our lives in Christ, putting away our sinful desires, and to be filled with the joy of the Lord. So yes, he does have the right to be happy in Jesus, but not in a homosexual relationship. Not the answer he wants to hear I'm sure, I could tell you for sure, but he's not talking to me right now. Long story.

Keep up the good work,
God Bless,
Matt W.

Jody said...

Christine, I'm curious. In your quoting of the Lot story, I notice you skipped the part where Lot offers to let the crowd rape his daughter in lieu of the angels.

Why was that?

Christinewjc said...

Hi Jody,

That's a good question. I have heard it asked several times before.

I will attempt to answer your question if you will answer mine?

How often do you read here at this blog?

Just curious.

On to your question regarding Lot offering his daughters to the men.

Several biblical scholars have offered up various reasons why Lot did this. None of them gave him a "pass" for suggesting it, either.

Replacing one evil act with another is wrong, too.

Some scholars surmised that Lot may have been scheming to save both the girls and the visitors, hoping the girls' fiance's would rescue them or that the homosexual men would be disinterested in the girls and simply go away.

In a Bible study a did a while back, I learned that the custom of that day was to protect guests at any cost. Notice in Genesis 19:2, Lot immediately asked them to come into his house. At first, the men (angels) told him that they would spend the night in the square, but Lot insisted so strongly that they did go to his house. With the sexual sin that was rampant there, Lot must have known what might happen to them if they were left unprotected out in the public square at night.

Another custom of those days, unfortunately, was that the dignity of women was not valued as highly as that of men. So, perhaps Lot thought that protecting the men (angels) from suffering was more important than what might possibly happen to his daughters.

Of course, this terrible suggestion by Lot reveals how deeply sin had been absorbed into his life. He had become hardened to evil acts in an evil city.

Whatever Lot's motives were, this incident is an example of Sodom's awful wickedness and how it was rampant in the city. The wickedness that was occuring there was so great that God had to destroy the entire city.

Jody said...

Christine, your blog is one of many, many, that I have on an RSS reader, from Left to Right, Christian to Atheist to Muslim, Fascist to Socialist. While I don't read every entry on every blog every day, I do read enough to encounter a variety of views and, I think, have a better formed opinion as a result.

In any event..

You are spinning the Lot story, introducing ideas and suppositions that aren't there in the tale. You are reading in details and waving away problems with the text that you don't care for -- much like the liberal Christians you all but refer to as Heretics.

Lot is presented in Leviticus as the last righteous man in Sodom. You are presenting Lot as a story of righteousness, using a tale in which the offering up two young women to an angry crowd for rape is considered an appropriate response not only as an example of a right action but also as "proof" that homosexuality is evil.

As a woman, as a woman with a daughter akin in age to those in the tale, that you can believe such a thing is a right course of action or can waive it away as a "mystery," is truly frightening to me, Christine.

Mark said...

If I may?

@jody, refer to the book of Judges, chapters 19-21.
Characters: The Israelites, the tribe of Benjamin and the Levite who cut his concubine into twelve pieces and sent them to each of the twelve tribes. The Levite's concubine had been brutally raped and ulimately left for dead by the wicked men in Gibeah.. This story clearly parallels (intertextuality device) the Genesis chapter 19 story of Sodom. The development of the characters remains basically flat. There are no fully developed individuals. The one basic quality in each is the fact all of them have willfully ignored God and did what they thought was right, not God. The narrative recounts the Levite's story about what happened in v. 4-7. It is clear the Levite is spinning the story away from his own responsibility and placing all the blame of this horrible act on the men of Gibeah. He after all offered up his concubine to save himself. In v.13 the sons of Benjamin would not listen to their brothers of Israel by not handing over the men responsible. In fact the Benjamites were heavily out numbered for battle, and yet they remained steadfast against turning over the men who committed this horrible act. It is clear the narrative is drawing a picture of how hard their hearts had become. This is made more clear in v 16 when the narrative describes the 700 'choice men' that would battle the sons of Israel.

Sin not only effects one person, but its effects have far reaching consequences. The tribe of Benjamin was part of Israel. They had a coventant relationship with God. Their hearts did not turn against God and become that hard overnight. It was gradual and no one spoke up or judged this turning away. If raping and killing the Levites concubine was nothing to them, we can only imagine how far their depravity and wickedness had sunk. In fact, they were willing to die before hand over the wicked men. If handing over your concubine to a gang rape, is an acceptable thing to do inorder to save yourself, the Levite too was in a condition of wickedness. By hacking her up and sending her parts to the twelve tribes of Israrel and then they say 'nothing like this as ever happened in Israel', they had clearly been living in the dark. The Levite, as he probably knew he would, got their attention all right, but at what cost?

In applying this to a Christian's life today, I would simply say look around. Our nation has rejected God and we celebrate sexual immorality, sin, and doing what is right in our own eye. We don't speak up in fear of being labeled. The consequences of living in rebellion to God are not just personal. The consequences have far reaching effects. When a Christian tolerates sin, they will become unaware of it eventually. We should constantly reevaluate our lives and where we are in terms of a right relationship with God. Do we look like the world, or do we look like God? Do we look and act those that may not have been the actual wicked men, but those who saw what they were doing and stayed inside their homes? I submit the folks in the city of Gibeah knew what those men were doing, and had been for sometime. It should not take a a hacked up body to get us to v. 30 "Consider it, take counsel and speak up!"

Christinewjc said...


Where did I state that Lot's offering his daughters to the men was considered an "appropriate" response? It certainly wasn't an example of "the right course of action." I was just giving you Lot's flawed reasoning for doing so.

One of the reasons that I asked you how often you read here is because I have posted an analysis about the entire account several times in the past. I wondered if you ever read it.

The story of Lot is about far more than what you suggest as my "spinning." And, the fact that Lot was not perfect in righteousness, nor sinless (keep in mind that NO ONE was, or ever has been perfect and sinless except Jesus Christ), does not negate the fact that he had some kind of relationship with the Lord. But even the depth of Lot's relationship with God was questionable when we look at his terrible choice to offer up his daughters to the men, as well as the fact that he and his family practically had to be dragged out of the city.

Keep in mind, Jody, that Lot and his family were spared due to Abraham's pleading for mercy for them. Back in Genesis 18:20-33, we read that Abraham asked God to spare the city if 50 righteous people could be found. As the conversation continued, the amount of righteous people whom Abraham pleaded to be spared dwindled down to ten!!

Abraham knew that God is just and that he punishes sin, but he may have wondered about God's mercy. Abraham seemed to be probing God's mind to see how merciful he really was. He left his conversation with God convinced that God was both kind and fair.

God already knew that there were not even ten righteous people in the city, but he was merciful enough to allow Abraham to intercede. He was also merciful enough to help Lot, Abraham's nephew, get out of Sodom before it was destroyed.

What does this tell us about God's patience and His justice? We must remember God's patience when we are tempted to think he is unfair. Even the most godly people deserve his justice.

The liberal Christianity sites that you probably visit are the ones who tend to spin this biblical account about Lot and Sodom. Their idea that Sodom was destroyed because of a lack of "hospitality" and the typical claims they espouse that only the intent of rape of the visitors by the men was sinful intent. The liberals wish to "wave their hands" and ignore the fact that the men intended to perform perverse and wicked homosexual acts on the angelic visitors. This is just their pride speaking and, quite frankly, just a sad and sorry attempt to negate the fact that according to God's Word, He sees such acts as abomination. Other Bible verses support this fact. Therefore, the liberal-gay-behavior-is-not-sin spin machine is guilty of reprobate theology.

God gave the people of Sodom the chance to repent. God is still waiting, today, giving people the opportunity to turn to him (see 2 Peter 3:9).

I think that it is good that you are so well read. But, have you read and studied the Bible yet? It is the ONLY place that we can get the wisdom and understanding about this life from God's perspective. God's answers to our questions may not always be in harmony with our expectations. Why? Because only He knows the whole story. However, He has given us enough information via His Word and the Person of Jesus Christ in order to fully, and completely, come to the right conclusion when Jesus asks us, "Who do you say that I am?"

I'm still praying for your salvation, Jody. It is my way of interceding for your sake; just as Abraham did for Lot and his family. Only God knows for sure which decision you will ultimately make before your life is over here on this earth. I pray that you don't remain in the current "Sodom" of this world.

I pray that one day, you will realize that God does exist and His unfathomable love for you was shown at the cross of Jesus Christ.

Christinewjc said...

Good points Mark! Especially this:

"There are no fully developed individuals. The one basic quality in each is the fact all of them have willfully ignored God and did what they thought was right, not God."

Non-believers seem to imply that when a person is labeled as "righteous" in the OT, then they should be perfect and sinless. We all know that this is not the case.

David was labeled as, "a man after God's own heart." Yet, he committed a multitude of sins, including adultery and even the order to have someone murdered!!

So, what was the reason that the Bible called him "a man after God's own heart?" I think it had to do with both his faith and also his knowledge of the need to repent.

Before the cross of Christ, the OT believers had their faith in God, God's Word, and the promise of the coming Messiah to live by. When they fell short, they paid huge temporal consequences. But when they repented, they were restored. It was their faith that was accounted as righteousness. This is what we learned about Abraham through God's Word. Abraham's faith was accounted to him as righteousness.

Since there was no one to be found who was completely sinless, totally righteous, utmost and holy, and, able to fulfill God's promise of the coming Messiah to pay the price for the sins of mankind (and save people from their sins); God sent His Son Jesus to be the propitiation for our sin. Thus, through repentance for our sin and belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord over our lives, we are then justified before Holy God because of Who Jesus is and what he did for us at the cross of Calvary.

There is a contemporary Christian song called "Who Am I" by Casting Crowns that speaks about Jesus in a way that is descriptive of the points that Mark and I are attempting to make here:

Not because of who I am -
But because of what You've done

Not because of what I've done -
But because of Who You are.

I am a flower quickly fading
Here today and gone tomorrow
A wave tossed in the ocean
A vapor in the wind

Still You hear me when I'm calling
Lord You catch me when I'm falling
And you told me who I am
I am Yours.

Here's a link to a unique youtube video of this song.