Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Correction and Reproof

If anyone here has read this post and has been following the 100 plus comments at this blog, perhaps you might be able to explain why my last comment caused deletion of the link here.

Uh oh...I think I must have angered the author of that blog. It appears that the link to this post was deleted. Must have been something I wrote that did not agree with his particular denominational ideology? I don't know.

This is a copy of my latest comment (and most likely was responsible for the link deletion):

Well said, Cindy. People can get so testy when it comes to accuracy in apologetics.

You wrote:

"Both men share platforms and churches and venues with those who directly teach that Jesus was/is ETERNALLY subordinate to the Father within the Trinity. I believe that that concept is very relevant here. The modern version of subordinationist teachings arose out of a need to bolster up the complemenarian argument, but it is not their origins that are of concern to me but the teaching and the concept that Jesus is of lesser authority than the Father.

Note what Jesus stated in these verses:

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

We are only human and are prone to error unless we strictly adhere to what God's Word reveals to us.

I think it is healthy to discuss important issues like this one in order to prevent any gradual (or quick) slide into heresy.

It isn't a question of who is ultimately correct in these debates...it's the revelation of God's Truth that wins the day.

Pro 15:10 Correction [is] grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: [and] he that hateth reproof shall die.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All of us need to head the message of those verses...including me. Correction by other believers is good. I find myself being very grateful when corrected according to Scripture. I think it behooves us all to have such an attitude. We can't let pride get in the way.

When I was a "babe in Christ" and had not studied the Bible yet, I leaned upon the following verse. After over 20 years of study, I still do!

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

God bless your day and your walk with Christ.

I did visit Cindy's blog and after just a brief scan there, found that there are probably issues that I don't agree with there. But I still stick behind what I posted at Camp's blog. If someone feels the need to correct me via Scripture - go right ahead. I'm always open to correction.


Susan Smith said...

Dear Christine—

This is not a correction, but an affirmation from the written Word of God. The foremost and most important commandment of all according to Jesus the Messiah: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one” (MAR 12:29). From the one who is, and who was, and who is to come (REV 1:8). He is the Alpha and the Omega. Praise His Name!

Much love to my friend who is so often salt and light to the whole world. Praise God for the truth. Jesus is the truth (JOH 14:6). Jesus is the way we are to walk and the life we are to live. Keep shining. (ss)

Anonymous said...

Pro 10:17 He [is in] the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Christinewjc said...

Thanks Susan and Sosthenes. Really appreciated your thoughts and Scripture verses. They encouraged me.

Christinewjc said...

Can we all admit to being able to relate to this honest, yet encouraging comment from blogger "Don"...especially the bolded part?

donsands has left a new comment on the post "THE SCREAM OF THE DAMNED...was Jesus really damned...":

"We can't let pride get in the way."

Pride grips my heart at times like a vise tightened to hold an iron pipe in place.

But the Lord is stronger than this grip, and He loosenes the vise with His grace.

He makes us humble by His grace and kindness, which leads us to repentance.

And Jesus receives all the glory. And we're thrilled to give Him all the glory as well!

Still studying this truth of Christ being made a curse. I'm grateful that Steve challenged Luther's commentary on this verse. I pray that we would all grow in the grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus Christ, and become stronger for His kingdom's cause, and for the preaching of the Gospel in this very dark and perverse age, where we have be brought out of, and into His marvelous light. Amen and amen.

Anonymous said...

"The curse here is that which the legalistic passages of the Mosaic law pronounced upon those who did not perfectly obey its demands. The law pronounced a blessing and a curse."

"A vivid picture of it all is given us in the three expressions, under the curse (3:10), made a curse for (above) us (3:13), and redeemed us out from under the curse (3:13). Sinners were under the curse. Christ came above us, thus between us and the curse. He took the blow of the Damascus blade that hung over us, and took us out from under the curse, having become a curse above us. The word above is the root meaning of huper, the preposition of substitution, used already in this epistle by Paul to speak of the substitutionary death of our Lord's death."

"The words being made are from genomenos which means 'to become.' It is a participle of means, expressing the method by which Christ redeemed us from the curse. In the words 'Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree,' Paul is quoting from Deuteronomy 21:23. They are introduced by Paul to support his statement to the effect that Christ became a curse. The Deuteronomy passage has reference to the dead body of a criminal who had been put to death by stoning, and which was hung upon a tree."

"Paul quotes from the LXX (Septuagint) and omits the words of God after cursed, since our Lord was in no sense accursed by God in His crucifixion. It was the curse of the Mosaic law that descended on Christ, subjecting Him to the death of a malefactor. The law satisfied its demands upon the Lord Jesus, and thus thrust Him out of the pale of its legal jurisdiction. Believers, being identified with Him in His death in which He paid our penalty, are likewise cast out with Him, and are therefore no longer under curse.

Translation. Christ delivered us by the payment of ransom from the curse of the law by becoming a curse in behalf of us, because it stands written, Accursed is every one who is suspended upon a tree."

-p.97-98, Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume I, Dr. Kenneth Wuest, NASB translator and Professor Emeritus, Moody Bible Institute

Cindy said...


I've some pretty unpopular messages about spiritual abuse that are quite likely to be rejected by many unless they have been through the process. I've been posting information about enmeshment (labelled with terms from the psychology literature that many find offensive). Yet, I have been getting so many hits from that ATI/Gothard "grown kids" webpage where that young man who went into YWAM and that church in Colorado had posted about his disappointments before he went on his killing spree. That information rings true to them, as they are dealing with unpleasantries that few people want to talk about.

I've also been shut out of an apologetics organization for merely advancing a thesis and then condemned and publicly denounced without any kind of hearing or consideration because I stepped on some of these same toes. All I ask is for some discussion on the matter, yet as a brilliant friend of mine put it, they responded with "jackbooted thuggery."

I grew up Pentecostal and now follow a Reformed understanding but more closely share beliefs that correspond best with "New Covenant Theology." As I've said many times, I don't think any self-respecting Calvinist would claim me, and the Dispensational bunch will no longer have me either! I still am not compelled to believe that the charismata no longer works today, but I do not agree with much of what goes on in the Word of Faith movement either.

Bottom line is that many ministers and churches today claim Jesus but use manipulation and punishment and the same techniques that groups like the Moonies use to capture minds for their following. The effects that follow are heart wrenching.

But I am just so disappointed in the church for the trend to shut down respectful debate. I just don't get it. We are to be known for our love for one another, yet we seem to be known more for our discipline of one another.

God have mercy on us all.