Friday, July 16, 2010

Deceived by Collective Salvation?

Although this is my third post on the same topic, I find it a very crucial subject that needs to be thoroughly discussed. Before I begin, I want to thank everyone who has commented on the previous two posts:

1. The Error Of Collective Salvation and Black Liberation Theology.

2. No One Can Duplicate It.

FYI, the "Error Of Collective Salvation and Black Liberation Theology" post is very popular and might end up ranking as one of the most viewed essays in Talk Wisdom's history! Part of the reason for that is that the essay has been listed at this link over the past several days:

XTS - All The News At Your Fingertips: Collective Salvation.

So...a big thank you and hat tip to that website!

Apparently, the tweets on that page are updated frequently. Some of them have had negative comments about Glenn's show, others have been supportive. Here is an example of the tweets today, July 16, 2010 at 10:26 a.m. PT:

Collective Salvation Tweets

elraybaker : collective salvation isn't that what satan offered?
Updated : 16 July 2010, 1:27 am Reply View Tweet

Updated : 16 July 2010, 1:15 am Reply View Tweet

coolmathteacher : @sunnieM Beck's show on Tuesday was AWESOME!! He layed [sic] out the plan of salvation OVER & OVER then compared it to OB's "collective" salv crap
Updated : 15 July 2010, 10:48 pm Reply View Tweet

Lockandload10 : Glenn Beck says OBama believes in Collective Salvation. Pope says its Demonic #RELIGION
Updated : 15 July 2010, 8:19 pm Reply View Tweet

patriotinks : RT @Lockandload10: Glenn Beck Says Obama believes in Collective Salvation. Pope says its demonic vid here #Religion #TEAPARTY
Updated : 15 July 2010, 8:17 pm Reply View Tweet

People have a HUGE interest in this debate! I think that it is wonderful that this discussion is out there. Agree or disagree, at least the TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST is being preached - despite the fact that some will reject it.

While listening to Glenn Beck's radio show this morning, he mentioned an article from a website called Faithful America.

On the "About Page," (above link) their beliefs and goals read just like Obama's political agenda! While looking through several pages, I didn't see anything about Jesus Christ being claimed as Lord and Savior. I didn't see anything written about the need to be born again (which Jesus stated we MUST do in John 3:3). I didn't see any Scripture quoted. What I did see, were these two comments about their political intentions and the history behind their existence:

By speaking out, mobilizing and taking action in the public square, we are building a powerful grassroots movement to put justice and the common good back at the center of the American values debate. At this critical juncture, when our actions or inaction will have profound and permanent global consequences, our faiths demand nothing less.

Notice the "our faiths" in that paragraph. Well, that's fine. Many people choose to live in a hodge-podge of spiritual oblivion. Just don't come off making people believe that you are a true, genuine, Biblically-based Christian community. You people are not fooling anyone!

Now, here is why they created their organization:

Faithful America was founded on June 15, 2004, when Americans of faith raised $36,000to place an advertisement on Arabic-language satellite television expressing regret to Muslims for the abuse committed by Americans at Abu Ghraib prison.

Ah! Now we see! It's another one of those blame Bush and hate the American military groups!

Typical liberal-progressive propaganda.

They have a Facebook page too. Here is their invitation to Glenn Beck fans:

Faithful America To all our visiting Glenn Beck fans, welcome! Please share your views and engage in polite debate. Name calling and personal attacks will be deleted, however.

Will disagreement with their politics get comments deleted?

Just glanced at the Facebook page. It states:

Faithful America is an online community of over 100,000 citizens motivated by faith to take action on the pressing moral issues of our time. We come from diverse faith traditions but share a unifying commitment to justice and the common good.

Motivated by faith? In what or whom? Isn't that important to know? That's the question that must be answered. Apparently, the moderators at the site aren't answering it!

Read the following comments from the bottom up:

Pete Partridge
We are all waiting for an answer to Angela's question.
4 minutes ago · Comment · Like · Flag

Frank Donnino Answer Angela's question?
15 minutes ago · Comment · Like · Flag

Pete Partridge Faithful America- How can we be saved? Please enlighten us.
17 minutes ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1) · Flag

Pete Partridge I'm going to laugh when someone says make a donation to Soros.
16 minutes ago · 1 personLoading...Pete Partridge I don't see anyone trying to debate the truth being presented here by the true followers of God..Funny how that works huh? You cannot debate the TRUTH! Think about that for a second. What is the other side of that debate going to be? Lies? "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."
20 minutes ago · Comment · Like · Flag

Angela Faithful? Faithful America? You can come out now. Most of the Glenn Beck fans are gone. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question...
29 minutes ago · Comment · Like · Flag

Brian Woodbury I love reading from fellow Americans making fun of this group. hmmm who to believe these nuts preaching socialism /marxist ideals funded by soro the criminal or Beck who just points things out for us to research ourselves and Loves America as it was... Ill take Beck every time.
43 minutes ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (2)Hide Feedback (2) · Flag

K Brad Porzelius likes this.

Brian Woodbury hose who dont know soros and all the communist groups he funds try this and he is a convicted felon.Got to love a man that broke the UK pound made billions but says he is for the poor wants to legalize drugs which will mainly hurt inner city and poor.
26 minutes ago

Scott Elwood funny, you google their phone number and the first name that pops up is Faith in Public life, part of a site called Democracy in Action which, lo an behold is a progressive website funded by George Soros
53 minutes ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (6)Hide Feedback (6) · Flag

Pete Partridge, Geri Jeffers and Joe Barton like this.

Angela Weird o_0
51 minutes ago

Joe Barton Astroturf!
46 minutes ago
Frank Donnino Of course it's Georgies. Like we don't know the truth. The truth...what a concept!
14 minutes ago

Scott Elwood hey Angela, I guess we're still waiting to find out how you get saved according to Faithful America
55 minutes ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (4)Hide Feedback (4) · FlagJoe Barton likes this.

Angela Yep, but I won't give up the faith. I'll continue to ask until I get an answer ; )
53 minutes ago

Craig Storms I hear it is like a group hug :)
23 minutes ago

Angela lol
17 minutes ago

Scott Elwood I wonder if it's coincidence that Faithful America are based at the same address as other/former liberal/progressive action groups funded by George Soros, SEIU and AFL-CIO
57 minutes ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (3)Hide Feedback (3) · Flag

Joe Barton and Geri Jeffers like this.

Angela It's a conspiracy! Quick! Get your tin foil hat! hehe
52 minutes ago · 1 personLoading...Nancy J. Coie Anyone well versed in the Bible would know that social justice is not what Jesus intended.
about an hour ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1) · Flag

Angela Thank you!
57 minutes ago

Scott Elwood nope, we're still here, we're waiting for the to respond, give us answers to our questions.................IF THEY CAN
about an hour ago · Comment · Like · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1) · Flag
Joe Barton likes this.

Angela I still would like to know how to be saved. Faithful America, how does one get saved?


Good question, Angela!!

I also want to share two excellent comments that were posted just this morning on my previous post "No One Can Duplicate It."

Christocentric said...
Christine, that was something else watching this Mormon, Glenn Beck, break down Black Liberation Theology! What an intriguing show! But what he did so importantly, is tie that heretical philosophy to the frame of mind of our current president, who sat under these teachings for 20 years under Rev. Wright!

But yes, isn't Christ wonderful? To avoid complete despair all we must do is remember that God is still in complete control of this mess and that this present earth is our temporary home. Thanks for sharing the scriptures of how much Christ loves us and what's He's done for us! Amen Amen!

Well, you know I haven't blogged much this year and I thought I stop by and respond to the Black Liberation show. Sadly, many black people I feel have such an inferiority complex that they must seek other false gods to make them feel better. Black Liberation falls under that - a very dangerous false teaching.

I promised you I'd share a link about this topic written by biblical scholar Ron Rhodes: "Black Theology, Black Power, and the Black Experience"

His article touches on many of the points shared by Glenn Beck on the show and he breaks down the teachings of James Cones, known as the father of Black Liberation Theology. The crux of his teaching is the "victimization" of Jesus Christ which many of us believe provides the belief system of Obama and his many victimization policies.

Enough on Obama...didn't really want to go there, but Glenn Beck took me to that place! Lol!

Take care Christine!

July 16, 2010 12:08:00 AM PDT

I met Carlotta via her Christocentric blog when she had a huge amount of information about Black Liberation Theology and the heretical kind of teaching that it is. Thanks for you input about this Carlotta! I really appreciate it!

stevex09 said...
As always I love your posts here. Always uplifting. Thank you!

Excellent point! No, Jesus was not a victim. Isa. 53:10-11:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied ...

Jesus was satisfied with the results of his 'travail' of which he willingly accepted.

July 16, 2010 9:36:00 AM PDT

EXCELLENT Stevex09! It is my prayer that what you shared here will get through to those who are trapped in the heresy of "collective salvation" and Black Liberation Theology!

After reading Stevex09's comment, I grabbed a book on my shelf called "The Great Compromise" by Greg Laurie. It opened automatically to page 172 and I read the highlighted paragraph there (included below). Then, I turned back a few pages and read the following paragraphs that I thought were perfect to share for such a time as this:

Yes, we all have our areas of vulnerability. We all have weights, or things that slow us down. We are confronted daily by a wide array of compromises that potentially could shut us down completely. How do we deal with that? We lay aside those weights.

Paul said, "Lay aside the weight and sin that so easily besets you." Lay it aside! You don't have to continue doing that thing that is hanging up your Christian walk. You don't have to continually expose yourself to temptation. You don't have to keep on compromising. It's not as if there is some set-in-stone pattern that is impossible for you to break out of. The Bible is filled with promises for just such occasions. Take, for example, this insightful word from Scripture: "Our soul has escaped as a bird from the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we have escaped. Our help is in the name of the Lord, who made heaven and earth" (Ps. 124:7-8). Can you see it? God provides a way of escape in every situation -- even yours.

When I read that, I thought of all those people who have been terribly deceived by the social justice/collective salvation/Black (or any) Liberation Theology heresies. It is my prayer that they will realize their errors and just look to Jesus, "who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Heb. 12:2 KJV).

For evangelicals, this isn't a game of "gotcha." No!! It is our duty to carry out The Great Commission - which was the last command that Jesus gave to his disciples before ascending into Heaven.

The fact that the aforementioned heresies claim that Jesus died as a victim is terribly distorted theology! Greg Laurie corrects them:

When Jesus carried that weighty, cumbersome cross through the winding streets of Jerusalem and to Golgotha, where He was nailed to it and left to die a horrible, painful death, it was a shameful thing. People laughed at Him. They mocked Him. They cursed Him. They wanted nothing to do with Him as He hung there, dying. Most of His disciples had forsaken Him. All but John were nowhere to be found that day. What kept Him going? What made Him bear up under all that horrible abuse? The Bible says it was "the joy that was set before Him." What joy? The joy of knowing that His death would set men free of Satan's clutches, traps, and snares.

Remember - there is joy in heaven each time a sinner comes to Christ (see Luke 15:7). So why did Jesus press through to the finish line that day at Calvary?

For you.


Hat Tips to all commentators and links!


GMpilot said...

Why does Greg Laurie refuse to acknowledge that it was Simon the Cyrene who carried Jesus' cross through the winding streets of Jerusalem and to Golgotha, where he was nailed to it and left to die a horrible, painful death? Why is Simon's contribution to the story constantly overlooked?

”What kept Him going? What made Him bear up under all that horrible abuse? The Bible says it was "the joy that was set before Him." What joy? The joy of knowing that His death would set men free of Satan's clutches, traps, and snares.”
I thought it was the idea that the Father would send legions of angels riding to the rescue at the last possible moment, whereby he would then come down off that cross and show those sinners a thing or two! (According to Revelation, that's how Jesus himself is going to deal with things on his next visit.)

If the idea was to 'set men free of Satan's clutches, traps, and snares', it was a failure, since according to Christians, Satan is still out there, setting traps and snares, and clutching left and right.

CJW: “For evangelicals, this isn't a game of "gotcha." No!! It is our duty to carry out The Great Commission - which was the last command that Jesus gave to his disciples before ascending into Heaven.”, the last command Jesus gave his disciples was “stay put”:

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Luke 24:49

Anonymous said...


Greg Laurie seems to be friends with Rick Warren and used Chuck Smith in a photo op so Rick Warren could use innuendo that the church which through out the Emergent Church is back within Rick Warren's influence. When you are in your eighties, you can lose perception and the body is dieing and unfortunately Greg Laurie used Chuck Smith for a photo op which Rick Warren did.

My other criticism is Laurie's son and the lifestyle his son lived before he died doesn't seem to add up that they weren't more than emergent.

What is Laurie's claim to fame other than running crusades? Is he known to be a great Bible expositor? No. Is he known for being a great theologian? No. Is he known for attracting great crowds? Yes. Does that fit in the Rick Warren scheme of things? Maybe.


Christinewjc said...

Busy weekend for me, but I wanted to take a moment and share a link to a post that I had done back in May, 2008. It deals with the thoughts of some who might be inclined to believe that "all religions are the same," vs. those who claim exclusivism (such as believers in Jesus Christ being the only way to the Father - a.k.a. Biblical Christianity).

Beware of "Useful" Religion

The website called "Faithful America" does not identify with any one faith. In fact, there is no evidence at that site of exactly WHAT or whom they "have faith in." Isn't that an important thing to know?

GMpilot said...


If Laurie and hid son were/are living in the manner you call “emergent”, that is your lookout. My question was why he didn't seem to know a biblical point that even I, a non-Christian, know. You can determine for yourselves the 'truth' of his beliefs; all I know was that what Christine quoted from him was not correct.

Nor do I believe that Jesus went joyfully to his death. His behavior in Gethsemane was not that of one looking forward to capital punishment—especially for a crime he wasn't guilty of—and he said nothing whatever about setting men free from the grip of Satan. All that came later.

Anonymous said...

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Psalm 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psalm 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Isaiah 53

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: